Apple are selling the Touch as an iPod, I think that they view it primarily as a portable music player.

Nokia pitch the N770/800 as Internet Tablets.

It seems to me that the Touch looks like a really nice PMP that can browse the Internet, but not very well because it has the wrong form factor.

The N770/N800 is a really nice Internet tablet that can also be a PMP, but not very well because it has the wrong form factor.

The IT isn't going anywhere

This is a music player, guys, not a general purpose mini-super-computer.

http://geekpenguin.blogspot.com/2007/09/ipod-touch.html

After reading 16 pages, to me, this is the statement that sums up Nokia's position (and gives me hope for the N800 future):

"Suffice to say, bottom line, the NITs have been successful enough. That is, enough to support future development."

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And although I personally could care less about a glitzy package, I still found this comment rather poignant:

"C'mon Nokia, put some lipstick on this pig!"
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(Gee, my first post and all I did was re-quote.....)

My... oh my. I've been reading this entire thread and invariably will open myself up to being flamed like no other... but it seems like the pending commercial success of the iPod Touch - a different machine with a different purpose than the Nokia 770/N800 - but it seems like it could be a sales hit that the Nokia team would love to have.

And why don't they? Why don't Nokia want those kinds of numbers? Out of fear since the 770/N800 isn't as initially user friendly as the rather - ok, I'll say it - "dumbed down" interface of the iPod Touch?

Why not present the N800 and what not as a more mainstream product? Why not bring the aforementioned Ubuntu UI out ASAP? Why not make the 770 not as obsolete so my purchase won't seem so much in vain!?

Ok... ignore that last point. But it does seem like a lot of late 770 buyers feel jilted since that means no Skype, Microb is all messed up, and no Flash 9 player (Ok, blame Adobe)... and why not even court Microsoft for Silverlight?

The ability to expand on the Nokia internet tablet currently outshines the iPod's invariably closed architecture. But as it stands, having two machines and stopping to support one wasn't too good for their image and possible future purchases.

But as it seems, nobody here wanted the Nokia internet tablet to be a commercial success. Or am I reading that wrong?

I'm going to attempt to answer gerbick's question (the overarching one) as succinctly as possible. However, I will have to dance around some touchy parts so bear with me.

The 770 paved new ground. It was a risk on Nokia's part because it portended a new business model: a low-cost commercial computing device that deliberately embraced open source software.

It was unheard of.

I can't imagine any company wanting to invest much in an unproven device and market. Far better to manufacture a number small enough to minimize costs but large enough to create a reliable, robust data set from which to draw and analyze.

Let this sink in.

It would behoove any such same company to aggressively analyze said data so that, if the test device proved its worthiness, a follow-up could come quickly on its heels. A more polished, performance-enhanced follow-up.

Although that follow-up would be a little more mature, keep in mind its development cycle would overlap the market test device's-- meaning not all lessons learned could be processed in time. Still, there was a *potential* new market to be captured and if the data from both initial devices demonstrated that market's validity, and the ability to fulfill a new need (read: desire), then certainly any respectable company would want to own that market-- just as Apple owns the portable MP3 player market.

I've used the chicken-and-egg scenario to describe the N800 and its ecosystem and that's a good one I think. Nokia could have waited until a decent wifi infrastructure was in place in key markets before moving, but wouldn't a competitor take advantage of such hesitance? So the 770 and N800 emerged into an immature ecosystem, outfitted with stopgap measures such as bluetooth phone-pairing to deal with the dearth of ubiquitous wifi.

Now, all the tablets had to do was gain *enough* traction in order to rationalize further support and development of the platform. So who defines enough? Well, it isn't this community. That's of course Nokia's decision. The fact that more devices are coming (a la Sprint/Wimax) indicates a strong belief that there IS a future for these tablets.

That's despite the hardware problems. Despite the software problems. Despite the apparent poor sales.

A lot of wannabe consumer electronics pundits with a failure to grasp and process context rabidly leap to proclaim the death of these devices every time something even remotely similar comes out. It wasn't just the iPod Touch-- the iPhone was supposed to kill it, too... along with a whole host of products with a related form factor and purpose, some of which are still vaporware.

The fact is the Nokia Internet Tablet isn't going to die because Apple came out with a nifty new media player. That is one aspect of the NIT's broad offering. The NITs are Long Tail products with a completely different intent and goal in mind. I doubt many people will jog with an N800 tucked into a sweat band, as they might with the Touch. Conversely, I can't see anyone playing Flash videos on their iPod. That contrast could go on and on but surely any reasonable person gets the picture.

Nokia has exhibited patience with the NITs progress, which should speak volumes. The devices may not be the commercial success that iPod Touchs will be in the immediate future, but then, the iPod already has a robust ecosystem, doesn't it? It doesn't have the same hurdles to overcome. It isn't the same device. Give the NITs a few years, though, and I'm betting they take off. And Nokia has already admitted to a mistake in the 770/N800 transition, one that won't be repeated.

Patience, folks. Curb your pessimism. There is more to come.

You been spending too much time in Europe? On this side of the pond we're a sound-bite loving, day-trading, IM-addicted, oooh isn't that shiny!, adult-ADD bunch of folks. We want ( no demand ) it all and want it yesterday!!

Hurry Hurry Hurry!!

Exactly! I get that, the problem is that now you're dealing with the "we want it now" mentality.
Some people don't understand that these things take time.
But Nokia also needs to understand one thing: don't take my "kindness" towards their long-interval info/product releases for being "stupid".
More effort on their part to actually keep those of us who are really into their Internet Tablet line a little better informed as to what's going on in the future would be greatly appreciated.
In other words Nokia, I know Apple. I own Apple products. You're no Apple.
So stop trying to ACT like Apple when it comes to your "flagship stores" and information pertaining to the IT line.
You'll lose our loyalty most ricky-tick that way and see a lot of folks jumping ship for the future Intel MIDs.

Agreed iball.

And andrbr? I fight ADHD everyday (mine and my son's ). But those damned Europeans are teaching me patience whether I like it or not!

Odd. I must be the only American left who never had ADHD.
Of course, having lived in Germany for the last 13 years helps one learn to slow down.

I'm not being pessimistic at all. I'd love for my internet tablet (nokia 770) to remain supported and me... I'd rather be happy with an expandable gadget with a great screen.