Reply
Thread Tools
Posts: 367 | Thanked: 1,442 times | Joined on Feb 2015
#31
Originally Posted by explit View Post
And the fact, that Roskomnadzor banned them in RUS, makes them one more time sympathic to me
Make no mistake. They might be blocking it, so that people may think just like you

When in reality, FSB might have a direct channel to telegram servers you never know.
 

The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to lantern For This Useful Post:
kinggo's Avatar
Posts: 943 | Thanked: 3,228 times | Joined on Jun 2010 @ Zagreb
#32
what do we ever know anyway? I mean, they take our fingerprints, more than half of the sate related stuff is now digital even in a ******** like HR. Public "safety" camers are everyvhere, we get traffic ticket just like that because of .again, cameras. We end up on someone else FB or instacrap just beceause we were there. Again, cameras all over. I don't see chats as the biggest issue when it comes to privacy.
 

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to kinggo For This Useful Post:
Posts: 367 | Thanked: 1,442 times | Joined on Feb 2015
#33
Exactly. So in my opinion nobody should delegate their privacy to companies. They exist not for your pleasure and freedom.

Wanna do it good - do it yourself.
 

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to lantern For This Useful Post:
Posts: 288 | Thanked: 1,103 times | Joined on Jul 2014
#34
So I was pretty much right with Alien Dalvik, they've gotten the appropriate licenses to work on and maintain Alien Dalvik themselves.
 

The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to nh1402 For This Useful Post:
kinggo's Avatar
Posts: 943 | Thanked: 3,228 times | Joined on Jun 2010 @ Zagreb
#35
great........ so it's just a matter of time when android compatibility will take more working hours than sailfish OS Or we will end up with just a sailfish launcher for android

Last edited by kinggo; 2018-05-03 at 11:06. Reason: typo
 

The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to kinggo For This Useful Post:
pacman's Avatar
Posts: 89 | Thanked: 532 times | Joined on Sep 2015
#36
Originally Posted by lantern View Post
Exactly. So in my opinion nobody should delegate their privacy to companies. They exist not for your pleasure and freedom.
With respect to messaging/communication, it seems to me that matrix is the best hope at the moment, even if it isn't quite there yet. Unfortunately the most comfortable way to use matrix on Sailfish is still Riot.im under Alien Dalvik, and even then there are problems with notifications. Maybe the Transponder project will improve things, although the author seems to be too busy with other things at the moment to progress it.

Originally Posted by nh1402 View Post
So I was pretty much right with Alien Dalvik, they've gotten the appropriate licenses to work on and maintain Alien Dalvik themselves.
Do you have a source for this? (I've looked around to see if you have quoted anything elsewhere, but didn't find anything. Sorry if I have missed it.)

Originally Posted by kinggo View Post
great........ so it's just a matter of time when android compatibility will take more working hours than sailfish OS Or we will end up with just a sailfish launcher for android
Although I understand the reasons for this kind of sentiment, I worry that we are missing a golden opportunity. 2018 is the best year for talking about privacy to the general public that we have had for quite some time. I believe that FB and friends will be actively working to keep the subject out of public view from now on. It may be several years before the issue hits the headlines again.

My personal belief is that the nature of the current Android support is the worst of both worlds, because it makes things highly unpredictable for people like me who use it. Some apps don't work at all, and some only partially work. As Android apps are upgraded, the functionality degrades, or they stop working completely from one day to the next. Downgrading to an earlier version doesn't always help: changes in APIs mean that the earlier versions may stop working once the newer versions are released. Going forward, there are really only two options for Android app support that make sense if we want adoption of Sailfish to increase. Either:

* kill it off completely now, or:

* upgrade it now so that more apps work with it, even if the long term plan is to kill it off

I don't see how the first of these options would result in a lot of useful native apps suddenly being developed. I don't think that any current or future services would be developed for app-free mobile browser use just to support Sailfish either. Who would switch to Sailfish from Android then? Sailfish would remain a niche product, and eventually go the way of WebOS (my very first smartphone was a WebOS one BTW, and I still regret its demise).

I believe that it is possible to make a case for Sailfish + Android compatibility like this:

* Privacy problems are built into consumer Android. You can choose whether or not to run particular apps on Android, but the privacy concerns are always there. If you choose Sailfish instead, you will be better off than with Android as far as privacy is concerned.

* There are quite a few Android apps around that are written to address privacy concerns, and that use this as a selling point[1]. Even if you don't feel like researching this yourself, you may well hear about privacy-respecting apps and services in the general media. People you know who are technically knowledgeable might also advise. Running these kind of apps on Sailfish means that your phone really isn't telling Google what you are up to.

If more people take up Sailfish, then more native apps might be developed for it. (It would help if in-app payments were possible as well of course, but that is another topic.) This may strike some of you as idealistic, but talking the possibility down probably makes it less likely to happen.

A lot depends on what Jolla wants of course. If they are not interested in enabling widespread adoption, then it definitely won't happen. If they are, then I still think that improved Android compatibility is needed for a step change in uptake of Sailfish in the medium term.

Sorry about the length of this post, but I wanted to set all this out as clearly as I could, even though I know that many of you won't be convinced

[1] Without specifically endorsing any of them, here are a couple of examples of Android apps for messaging services that do seem to pay more than lip service to user privacy: Wickr, Wire, Hoccer. My hope for the future is matrix of course, but we will see.
 

The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to pacman For This Useful Post:
Posts: 84 | Thanked: 267 times | Joined on Apr 2016
#37
Android / alien licencies mentioned here. Foss north
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tFF_cY6e-IQ
 

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to feedme For This Useful Post:
Community Council | Posts: 4,920 | Thanked: 12,867 times | Joined on May 2012 @ Southerrn Finland
#38
Originally Posted by pacman View Post
Originally Posted by nh1402 View Post
So I was pretty much right with Alien Dalvik, they've gotten the appropriate licenses to work on and maintain Alien Dalvik themselves.
Do you have a source for this? (I've looked around to see if you have quoted anything elsewhere, but didn't find anything. Sorry if I have missed it.)
James says so in the meeting, around 08:31:03;
http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-m...08.00.log.html
 

The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to juiceme For This Useful Post:
Posts: 74 | Thanked: 355 times | Joined on Aug 2017
#39
Originally Posted by pacman View Post
Do you have a source for this? (I've looked around to see if you have quoted anything elsewhere, but didn't find anything. Sorry if I have missed it.)
I ask on the last Community meeting on Thursday if they are going to update AlienDalvik to support newer Android versions or if they plan to switch to another runtime. Here are the quotes from the log juiceme already linked:

08:28:04 <jenix> Jaymzz: Can you comment on the future plans for Android Support? Have there be plans to get it to support andoird versions >4.4?
08:28:48 <Jaymzz> jenix: Yes! in our latest roadmap blog post we explained that. https://blog.jolla.com/sailfish-x-whats-next/
08:29:05 <Jaymzz> jenix: "Other important areas that we’ll be working during 2018 are updating the Android runtime compatibility to a newer Android version..."
08:29:58 <jenix> Jaymzz: Thanks. Does this mean you're updating AlienDalvik? Or do you switch to a different runtime (e.G. Anbox)?
08:30:52 <r0kk3rz> jenix: i expect an updated aliendalvik, it would be a pain to redo all the integration work on anbox
08:31:03 <Jaymzz> jenix: It is likely to be Alien Dalvik as we have the aquired the proper licenses to maintain it ourselves. But in case there is an unsolvable problem, we may need to switch to something else. Let's see! It's not in a stage where I can say anything for sure
08:34:47 <leszek> does the new alien dalvik license mean you can also sell licenses in the store in the future?
08:35:01 <leszek> might be interesting for ports I think
08:35:54 <Jaymzz> leszek: There are other issues with that, let's get deep into it next time. But I don't see that happening at least any time soon because of potential problems they may create
08:35:58 <sledges> leszek: it needs tailoring per port or at least per SoC
08:36:15 <sledges> and always - DPI
Personally, I still see the Android support as a big advantage of SFOS. Unfortunately, more and more companies are going "app first" or even "app exclusive" which normally only includes apps for iOS and Android. Since both platforms are privacy nightmares, SFOS with AlienDalvik could be the third option to run those apps without giving up all your data.
Of course, this requires two changes at the moment: support for newer Android version and app permission management to restrict the access of those apps. But it seems that both is on the roadmap and will be available in 2.2 at some time.

Last edited by jenix; 2018-05-05 at 08:49.
 

The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to jenix For This Useful Post:
Community Council | Posts: 4,920 | Thanked: 12,867 times | Joined on May 2012 @ Southerrn Finland
#40
Originally Posted by jenix View Post
Personally, I still see the Android support as a big advantage of SFOS. Unfortunately, more and more companies are going "app first" or even "app exclusive" which normally only includes apps for iOS and Android. Since both platforms are privacy nightmares, SFOS with AlienDalvik could be the third option to run those apps without giving up all your data.
What you don't take into consideration here is that if you get an app as given, your security is already busted. Regardless of what the platform is.

If you install any random binary-only application to your device you will grant it at least user-level system access to your device, in some cases even root-level access. (and for most systems it is enough to have user-level access as there are new privilige escalation holes all the time...)

The only possible safe way is that the service provider publishes a sane API and the applications using it are provided in source form to be compiled by oneself. Binary distribution can be allowed if the sources are available and mechanism for reproducible build verification exists.
 

The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to juiceme For This Useful Post:
Reply

Thread Tools

 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 14:37.