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2013-12-08
, 11:09
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Posts: 1,195 |
Thanked: 2,708 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
@ Hanoi
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#2
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I am in the market for good software and will purchase a Sailfish license for 100 Euro if I can install it on a recycled 3 year old Android Nexus device.
Condition is that all relevant open communication (SIP) and network centered protocols (VPN) are integrated and supported and at least a decent browser. (in short, copy N900 and update).
BT hardware supportd, camera's supported, music hardware supported by stable multitasking core applications and that's it.
Provide professional application rights management and administrator level access options to tools starting from file browser, so that ICT people can earn money professionally and safely installing Sailfish based on user's requirements on obsolete Android phones.
Leave flickr and Facebook to 3rd parties until core OS is fully functional and matured.
It is the software that concerns me most. No USB access from PC and so on.. that is worrying me for the moment, not if one or the other slightly different hardware will be released in 6 months.
Condition is that all relevant open communication (SIP) and network centered protocols (VPN) are integrated and supported and at least a decent browser. (in short, copy N900 and update).
BT hardware supportd, camera's supported, music hardware supported by stable multitasking core applications and that's it.
Provide professional application rights management and administrator level access options to tools starting from file browser, so that ICT people can earn money professionally and safely installing Sailfish based on user's requirements on obsolete Android phones.
Leave flickr and Facebook to 3rd parties until core OS is fully functional and matured.
It is the software that concerns me most. No USB access from PC and so on.. that is worrying me for the moment, not if one or the other slightly different hardware will be released in 6 months.
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2013-12-08
, 11:13
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Posts: 728 |
Thanked: 1,217 times |
Joined on Oct 2011
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#3
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I don't get the 6 months logic. They can easily keep selling the same device for over 6 months. Not really sure they have to launch another one in such a short time, at least the competition doesn't do that.
And regarding android, that will depend on HTC or similar to be interested, I doubt anything can be done for the general public with technology as it is.
And regarding android, that will depend on HTC or similar to be interested, I doubt anything can be done for the general public with technology as it is.
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2013-12-08
, 11:25
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Posts: n/a |
Thanked: 0 times |
Joined on
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#4
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I keep seeing folks saying they'd be happy to purchase Sailfish OS for 100€.
100€ is around 138 USD. For 40 USD more, I can get an unlocked, brand new 8GB Motorola Moto G. No way I'm paying 100€ for just an OS on an older Android phone. Just doesn't make sense.
They've differentiated themselves via a different OS (MeeGo based) and with a closed source UI. Fine. They've chatted up a way to install on existing Android phones. Great. I don't see that adding to their numbers because so far, the native apps are far and few in-between and they're slightly (at this moment) dependent on the Android compatibility layer.
That last bit straddles the line of "should I wait for Jolla to be available in my area/market" or "should I get an Android phone instead"... and having an installable OS cost as much as I can get a higher spec'd phone (arguable), then I'm going the higher specification route for slightly more expensive and full-on support.
Jolla needs to discuss not installations, but how will it be supported. And how this adds to their efforts.
Don't get me wrong, Jolla's future is bright if you were to ask me. This whole installable Android part is where I'm sorta misunderstanding what they're trying to attempt.
Future implies waiting. So let's wait and see. The rest is speculation unless it comes from Jolla. That's my take...
100€ is around 138 USD. For 40 USD more, I can get an unlocked, brand new 8GB Motorola Moto G. No way I'm paying 100€ for just an OS on an older Android phone. Just doesn't make sense.
They've differentiated themselves via a different OS (MeeGo based) and with a closed source UI. Fine. They've chatted up a way to install on existing Android phones. Great. I don't see that adding to their numbers because so far, the native apps are far and few in-between and they're slightly (at this moment) dependent on the Android compatibility layer.
That last bit straddles the line of "should I wait for Jolla to be available in my area/market" or "should I get an Android phone instead"... and having an installable OS cost as much as I can get a higher spec'd phone (arguable), then I'm going the higher specification route for slightly more expensive and full-on support.
Jolla needs to discuss not installations, but how will it be supported. And how this adds to their efforts.
Don't get me wrong, Jolla's future is bright if you were to ask me. This whole installable Android part is where I'm sorta misunderstanding what they're trying to attempt.
Future implies waiting. So let's wait and see. The rest is speculation unless it comes from Jolla. That's my take...
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2013-12-08
, 11:34
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Posts: 1,195 |
Thanked: 2,708 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
@ Hanoi
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#5
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100€ is around 138 USD. For 40 USD more, I can get an unlocked, brand new 8GB Motorola Moto G. No way I'm paying 100€ for just an OS on an older Android phone. Just doesn't make sense. -->> The Android would not be old anymore as it would run twice as fast and user friendly. That would be worth the investment.
Why are people paying for Windows 8 and not for a decent phone OS is something I am trying to understand. Can you help me out?
Why are people paying for Windows 8 and not for a decent phone OS is something I am trying to understand. Can you help me out?
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2013-12-08
, 12:11
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Posts: n/a |
Thanked: 0 times |
Joined on
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#6
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Originally Posted by ste-phan
Whomever stated anything about Windows Phone 8? Don't divert into unnecessary territory.
100€ is around 138 USD. For 40 USD more, I can get an unlocked, brand new 8GB Motorola Moto G. No way I'm paying 100€ for just an OS on an older Android phone. Just doesn't make sense. -->> The Android would not be old anymore as it would run twice as fast and user friendly. That would be worth the investment.
Why are people paying for Windows 8 and not for a decent phone OS is something I am trying to understand. Can you help me out?
Does anybody know the version of ACL? It's invariably not 4.4.1. And if anything, Android has shown how closely tied its performance is to the accompanying hardware.
Old or underpowered hardware means slower Android performance.
Your examples don't enforce a good investment. Just a convenient one.
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2013-12-08
, 12:12
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Posts: 7,074 |
Thanked: 9,069 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
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#7
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Originally Posted by ggabriel
6 month is a magic marker! it not exactly 6 month but somewhere around that. When everybody that wants the phone got it(or moved on to later products)! at that point price point must decrease and or new or improved products hit the market.
I don't get the 6 months logic. They can easily keep selling the same device for over 6 months. Not really sure they have to launch another one in such a short time, at least the competition doesn't do that.
And regarding android, that will depend on HTC or similar to be interested, I doubt anything can be done for the general public with technology as it is.
NOTE: I'm not saying they can't or won't or that they will fail if they do so. They might have calculations or plans that included this. What do we know
__________________
Do something for the climate today! Anything!
I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...
Do something for the climate today! Anything!
I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...
Last edited by Dave999; 2013-12-08 at 12:40.
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2013-12-08
, 12:28
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Posts: 728 |
Thanked: 1,217 times |
Joined on Oct 2011
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#8
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Originally Posted by Dave999
You are assuming that people buy a new phone every 6 months. While that may be true to you, it isn't true to everybody. I, for example, buy phones every 2+ years. Most of my mates do so every 1+ years. All fanbois buy phones every time Apple releases one* (so, every 1+ years).
6 month is a magic marker! it not exactly 6 month but somewhere around that. When everybody that wants the phone got it(or moved on to later products)! at that point price point must decrease and or new or improved products hit the market.
I doubt that there will be dramatic hardware changes in 6 months to justify making a brand new phone. If anything, it will probably be better for Jolla to innovate a lot more [hardware wise] in a year's time. Mind you - I'm talking about a proper differentiating new phone, not what Samsung does with their galaxies which is enhance some bits here and there, change the case slightly and charge a lot more for it.
* Except the last time that they released cheap and expensive products. Fanbois in the "first world" will go for the expensive one of course ;-)
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2013-12-08
, 12:34
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Posts: 7,074 |
Thanked: 9,069 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
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#9
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Originally Posted by ggabriel
I'm not assuming anything like that. Just talking about product life cycle. OF course jolla can sell the same phone for 2 years. But it will be hard for them economically if they don't have some serious backer or work for free. don't you agree...So how should they do it?
You are assuming that people buy a new phone every 6 months. While that may be true to you, it isn't true to everybody. I, for example, buy phones every 2+ years. Most of my mates do so every 1+ years. All fanbois buy phones every time Apple releases one* (so, every 1+ years).
I doubt that there will be dramatic hardware changes in 6 months to justify making a brand new phone. If anything, it will probably be better for Jolla to innovate a lot more [hardware wise] in a year's time. Mind you - I'm talking about a proper differentiating new phone, not what Samsung does with their galaxies which is enhance some bits here and there, change the case slightly and charge a lot more for it.
* Except the last time that they released cheap and expensive products. Fanbois in the "first world" will go for the expensive one of course ;-)
__________________
Do something for the climate today! Anything!
I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...
Do something for the climate today! Anything!
I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...
Last edited by Dave999; 2013-12-08 at 12:37.
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2013-12-08
, 12:38
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Posts: 284 |
Thanked: 661 times |
Joined on Aug 2013
@ Finland
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#10
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Good topic, I wanted to discuss this. In this piece of news (in Finnish) Jolla's CEO states that Jolla reaches profitability after 'some' hundreds of thousands of devises. It might be that they profit 150€ per device, or even 200€. I suspect somewhere in between those numbers.
About letting users to install Sailfish on their devices I think is a tactical move with both a long-shot and immediate goal in mind: firstly, to get more native apps (in time), and secondly, to get components cheaper from hardware manufacturers. Installing the OS implies demand, after all. The challenge is to actually make a Jolla device more desirable to get than just to install Sailfish on name-your-android-phone. I think this is where the I2C comes in. But if they do rely I2C on this one, they should really place getting those gadget Other-Halves to market as a priority.
EDIT: Or they rely on to their User Experience and unlike/new-factor to get enough sales for them to sustain themselves. This depends heavily on how many deals they get with European carriers. And they do have a really good marketing team IMO.
Last edited by Thoke; 2013-12-08 at 13:15. Reason: minor typo
About letting users to install Sailfish on their devices I think is a tactical move with both a long-shot and immediate goal in mind: firstly, to get more native apps (in time), and secondly, to get components cheaper from hardware manufacturers. Installing the OS implies demand, after all. The challenge is to actually make a Jolla device more desirable to get than just to install Sailfish on name-your-android-phone. I think this is where the I2C comes in. But if they do rely I2C on this one, they should really place getting those gadget Other-Halves to market as a priority.
EDIT: Or they rely on to their User Experience and unlike/new-factor to get enough sales for them to sustain themselves. This depends heavily on how many deals they get with European carriers. And they do have a really good marketing team IMO.
Last edited by Thoke; 2013-12-08 at 13:15. Reason: minor typo
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While they are shipping their own device, their goal is to maintain and develop Sailfish rather than creating their own hardware. That means other manufactures must be in the pipeline to push sailfish devices to the market.
The question is how long the market(and jolla) can wait before pushing new hardware to market. If no new hardware is released before end of 2014 jolla and sailfish is in serious trouble and at that time we will now for sure if sailfish is here to stay or will be abandon or passed to tiny linux os out there.
I would go so far as to say if no new devices is released within 6 month jolla is in trouble. They could of course save some time buy release it for android devices. But even if they grow and get some market share. where is their income?
100 000 devices. 100$ profit/device its 10 million. If they are 100 employees that money won't be enough unless jolla pay its employees with shares or they are significantly underpaid.
And then we have the serious competitors that launching devices everywhere and all the time like androids, windows and iOS. We might have tizen and ubuntu next year. Jolla is a head since they are in market. can they keep the distance.
So what hope do you give jolla and sailfish in this dangerous world?
They should defiantly get credit for doing this bold move and stating a company in this sector with fierce competition. How shall they do it? How can they survive? The winter is coming...
Do something for the climate today! Anything!
I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...
Last edited by Dave999; 2013-12-14 at 12:29.