New Council elected! May 2012 - November 2012 - Page 12 - maemo.org

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	misterc	2012-04-05 , 14:16
	Posts: 1,625 \| Thanked: 998 times \| Joined on Aug 2010	#111

Your message to maemo-community awaits moderator approval

maemo-community-bounces@maemo.org

3 Apr (2 days ago)

to me
Your mail to 'maemo-community' with the subject

Re: Council nomination.

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

Post by non-member to a members-only list

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.

anyone watching this?

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timoph	2012-04-05 , 14:37
Posts: 415 \| Thanked: 732 times \| Joined on Jan 2009 @ Finland	#112

Originally Posted by misterc

[b]

anyone watching this?

subscribe the mailing list so you don't need moderator approval to send mail to it.

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	Jaffa	2012-04-05 , 14:49
	Posts: 2,535 \| Thanked: 6,681 times \| Joined on Mar 2008 @ UK	#113

Originally Posted by ivgalvez

Hi Niels, did you receive any of the emails that Rob (SD69) and me sent you regarding the problems with promotion of packages and the proposed solutions agreed first on TMO and then in the testing mailing list?

As the discussions recently held on TMO show, though, this isn't a case of "we'll have a discussion on one thread and a list for testers and then fundamentally change the way Extras works".

It's a non-trivial problem; orphaned packages need a solution but questions around maintainership and support need to be addressed.

The takeover of orphaned packages by a new maintainer is a related, but simpler, problem.

yet we still have the problem with promotion of orphaned packages due to the obvious lack of developers for Fremantle.

We (the community) need an easy way to handle with these orphaned packages, transfer maintenance and promoting should be easier for members of the Council, Testers and I would say that also for some "super developers" such as Pali, freemangordon, MAG, etc.

And before X-Fade can do the work, a proposal needs to be discussed outside of the testers group and the feelings of developers sanctioned. Also things like processes for when it's appropriate to takeover, and how attempts will be made to the original maintainer. For example, just because I go on holiday for two weeks doesn't mean anyone should be able to convince the Council to give them maintainership.

All this work also needs prioritising, see my comments above about a backlog. If there're no processes people can't complain that $RANDOM_REQUEST_ON_IRC isn't finished by $RANDOM_TIME_NO_ONE_AGREED_TO.

__________________
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	Estel	2012-04-05 , 15:12
	Posts: 5,028 \| Thanked: 8,613 times \| Joined on Mar 2011	#114

Originally Posted by X-Fade

Whoa, it feels like I need to hand out a lot of tin foil hats here.

The whole world is not against you, if you feel that way, there is not a whole lot we can do for you.

As for contacting me. I've been working hard on apps.formeego.org, maybe concentrated my efforts a bit too much. If communication suffered a bit, I'm sorry about that.

To be honest, I'm quite speechless after reading that.

7 months before someone investigated kernel-power problem with package interface is "a bit"?!

I'm totally sure, that main mistake done by previous Council(s) is using Your (You = whole Team) recommended write-only communication blackholes, instead of bugs.maemo.org - just like lma have written. At least, no one would try to implicit, that there was just "small problem" instead of full-scale lack of support.

Originally Posted by Andre Klapper

Either show me proof for the existance of your "blacklist", or stop making "bunch of BS" statements yourself.

Pure sophism. either show proof for existence of support, or it didn't happen.

Seriously though, SD69, could You please waste a little from your already occupied timeline, and document here at least part of Your countless attempts to communicate with X-Fade/Nemein? Alongside channels used (e-mail, for example).

It's really frustrating to read BF about "random ping at irc" - AFAIK, it was used as accompanying, last-resort desperate tried to regain contact after months of blackout. Writing here, that no support was given, because IRC ping were *main* communication channel, isn't just plain rude. It's something more.

/Estel

__________________
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Last edited by Estel; 2012-04-05 at 15:18.

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	mrsellout	2012-04-05 , 15:17
	Posts: 889 \| Thanked: 2,087 times \| Joined on Sep 2010 @ Manchester	#115

I've created a wiki page for the Council Declarations.

As time permits today and tomorrow, I'll complete the list of candidates, in the mean time feel free to edit the page to fill out the information.

Edit: As it stands there are currently 4 runners, with SD69 and Geneven nominated without having accepted the nomination and Gerbick who has declared his intention to run here at tmo, and been nominated on the mailing list but has yet to declare his intent to run there.

Apologies if have missed anyone, it certainly isn't intentional.

Edit 2: Arie falls into the same category as Gerbick in having declared an intention to run on tmo, without having officially decared his intention on the mailing list.

Last edited by mrsellout; 2012-04-06 at 12:02.

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	Estel	2012-04-05 , 15:58
	Posts: 5,028 \| Thanked: 8,613 times \| Joined on Mar 2011	#116

Thanks mrsellout. I've updated my mission statement, so I encourage everyone to read about my plans for eventual council period

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SD69	2012-04-05 , 16:56
Posts: 1,513 \| Thanked: 2,248 times \| Joined on Mar 2006 @ US	#117

Originally Posted by Estel

Seriously though, SD69, could You please waste a little from your already occupied timeline, and document here at least part of Your countless attempts to communicate with X-Fade/Nemein? Alongside channels used (e-mail, for example).

It's really frustrating to read BF about "random ping at irc" - AFAIK, it was used as accompanying, last-resort desperate tried to regain contact after months of blackout. Writing here, that no support was given, because IRC ping were *main* communication channel, isn't just plain rude. It's something more.

/Estel

Yes, I tried repeatedly and got no response. I'm not going to empty my mailbox, but here is an interesting one from a couple months ago:

"Matti,

Do you have any response to this? Is the lack of responses to council intentional or are you under some distress at your job or something?

Rob"

We don't know what happened and probably never will. I accept what X-fade said above. He even apologized (I'm not sure he had to), so of course, I accept it and we move on. He even acknowledged that appsformeego was priority, which is what I suspected (after all, who says to a girl "I like you, but there's someone else I want to spend time with" - it's awkward). These are the things that happen. I don't see that there was personal fault or animosity - just a bad situation for maemo which we have managed to extricate ourself from. Frustrating? Yes, it was. But try to take solace in what would have happened if you and I had done nothing and that has been avoided.

Matti and X-Fade were probably caught in the middle, perhaps they couldn't say so either. They are not against maemo - it's WP7 and some executives at Nokia who are.

Besides, what I really care about is that maemo was being abandoned and left to die, but now it is on the upswing with momentum and people are contributing to solving the problems we identified. I never even imagined then that QGil would come back to maemo, so it was more than expected. If people don't recognize what happened, I'm not going to spend more time that can be better used on something else.

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	Jaffa	2012-04-05 , 17:28
	Posts: 2,535 \| Thanked: 6,681 times \| Joined on Mar 2008 @ UK	#118

Originally Posted by Estel

It's really frustrating to read BF...

"BF"?

...about "random ping at irc" - AFAIK, it was used as accompanying, last-resort desperate tried to regain contact after months of blackout. Writing here, that no support was given, because IRC ping were *main* communication channel, isn't just plain rude.

I'm specifically talking about the "CSSU problem". Which has never been discussed in the CSSU's proper mailing list (maemo-developers) nor a clear statement of "we had this problem". MAG was missing but there were then various back channel ways of trying to resolve the problem: that the Garage account for uploading new packages was linked to his RSA key. CSSU needs to identify how such gatekeeper processes should work; especially for "Stable".

There was a workaround, changing the Garage account to one shared between trusted people (with some process to say who is actually uploading it) is workable.

The approach of allocating work to X-Fade (and I accept his self-criticism of spending too much time on apps.formeego.org - we need to have the time allocated to maemo.org maintenance used and prioritised more transparently) seems to be the community (through SD69) seeming to organise occasional meetings (I was sure there was more than one) and throw tasks at X-Fade without any public prioritisation. I don't want to defend the situation, but I can quite clearly see how both "sides" are to blame: how can anyone be expected to prioritise the work properly in that situation?

Some of the problems could even be addressed within the community: all the code for maemo.org is open source and if anyone really needed to, they could scratch their own itch. And then the task for X-Fade is to support them in that and deploy the change, rather than write it himself amongst a set of tasks.

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	woody14619	2012-04-05 , 19:27
	Posts: 1,455 \| Thanked: 3,309 times \| Joined on Dec 2009 @ Rochester, NY	#119

Originally Posted by javispedro

Well, I am going to ignore woody14619, because he managed to bring in his usual "meego-is-useless" flame despite the fact that _this thread was not about Meego_. I've see few people from Nemo/Mer around.

Uhm.. We're talking about the transition of both MeeGo.com AND Harmattan, and why some of the N900 community holds some bitterness around both. There's a great ammount of relevance to what we were talking about.

Originally Posted by javispedro

Harmattan and Meego/Mer/Nemo are completely different (at least, in the context of the current discussion).

Wrong. We're not having a discussion about OS internals like ICD. We're having a discussion about the community's perception of Harmattan, which in great part is (rightly or wrongly) linked with it's perception of MeeGo. You and I know there's a difference, but many people who didn't follow the 800+ threads on it don't know or care about the subtleties. Nokia promoted Harmattan as it's first MeeGo handset, so in the minds of many/most TMO followers they are linked.

One of the major discussions (above and referenced) was about if and how to fold in not just Harmattan, but the possibility of providing a home for those now on meego.com when it goes dark. As such, both are being discussed, which you would have known, had you not just jumped in without reading through the thread first.

Side note to Javispedro:

I've never, ever said "Meego is useless." One more blatant lie like that and you're going to once again find yourself as the only person on my ignore list, permanently this time. Seriously... I have no time to deal with someone that does nothing but lie, put words in other peoples mouths, and jumps into conversations mid stream to do nothing but "stir the pot".

To make things 100 % clear: I have no problem with MeeGo, Harmattan, Mer/Nemo or any other OS or project involved in or in some way orbiting this community. What I have had consistent problems with is the bickering and flat out lies that several people here (like yourself) have spewed in relation to and at anyone who simply disagrees with your belief that project X is the best or only "one true" end-all project.

Last edited by woody14619; 2012-04-05 at 19:50.

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	Estel	2012-04-05 , 20:03
	Posts: 5,028 \| Thanked: 8,613 times \| Joined on Mar 2011	#120

Originally Posted by SD69

Yes, I tried repeatedly and got no response. I'm not going to empty my mailbox, but here is an interesting one from a couple months ago:

"Matti,

Do you have any response to this? Is the lack of responses to council intentional or are you under some distress at your job or something?

Rob"

We don't know what happened and probably never will. I accept what X-fade said above. He even apologized (I'm not sure he had to), so of course, I accept it and we move on. He even acknowledged that appsformeego was priority, which is what I suspected (after all, who says to a girl "I like you, but there's someone else I want to spend time with" - it's awkward). These are the things that happen. I don't see that there was personal fault or animosity - just a bad situation for maemo which we have managed to extricate ourself from. Frustrating? Yes, it was. But try to take solace in what would have happened if you and I had done nothing and that has been avoided.

Matti and X-Fade were probably caught in the middle, perhaps they couldn't say so either. They are not against maemo - it's WP7 and some executives at Nokia who are.

Besides, what I really care about is that maemo was being abandoned and left to die, but now it is on the upswing with momentum and people are contributing to solving the problems we identified. I never even imagined then that QGil would come back to maemo, so it was more than expected. If people don't recognize what happened, I'm not going to spend more time that can be better used on something else.

Amen.

I'm very glad, that one of side-effects from that discussion is fixing already kernel-power issue, and if cooperation and communication is going to be so fluent as it is now (even if we argue a little, after all, there is more communication passing through, than in total last 6 months

), I also think that there is no need to talk about it anymore.

/Estel

// Edit

For now, i just hope that You're (SD69) going to accept Your nomination. As You can see, it's guaranteed that we will have voting this time, and it don't seem that there is risk of you being left alone to do Council work, again.

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Is there a section to talk about Java ME? Apps, etc. (0)

Extra softwares in Sailfish using CLI, repositories, etc (117)

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