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| The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to lma For This Useful Post: | ||
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2009-05-12
, 14:03
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#22
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Originally Posted by qgil
Indeed, I can see useful applications of this on IADs (OpenWrt? ISTR Nokia is already using that in some projects), asterisk servers and the like.
Also note the obvious scope of the freesmartphone.org, while oFono is by design not tied to any form factor.
Thanks to all involved in releasing this. Hopefully the discussion on the relative merits of oFone vs FSO will take place somewhere and benefit both projects.
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2009-05-12
, 15:46
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Posts: 1,540 |
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Joined on Feb 2007
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#23
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Originally Posted by lma
I still don't understand why people object to devices simply having cellular telephony as an option. No one minded Wimax as an option, why is 3.5G as an option any different?
It may be that the cellular call support is not quite ready yet and will come in Harmattan, or there will be a different (closed-source) stack in Fremantle but IMHO it looks like we'll see it in maemo sooner or later. Now I don't necessarily think that's a good thing (I don't need a phone personally
Some people seem to think telephony means control by network operators but that just isn't the case. I have spent the past few years buying and reviewing cellular devices, and I have never bought ANYTHING from a network operator. I have never signed up to a contract, and no network operator has any control over me or my devices. My relationship to my phone network is identical to my relationship to my ISP: they supply a connection, they don't supply anything else.
If you buy an unbranded phone, no network operator can touch you. And all Nokia devices (branded or unbranded) will work without a SIM card, so they can be used as pure non-cellular devices if you prefer.
Practically all Nokia devices are available as unbranded unlocked devices straight from electronics retailers with no network operator involvement at all, in fact the unbranded versions come out a lot sooner. Even if you're in America, where unbranded phones have traditionally been a rarity, Amazon US sell them, Dell US sell them, Nokia US's website sells them, and here in Europe practically every retailer sells unbranded phones.
Even if the new Maemo devices had telephony, you could just ignore it, it wouldn't make any practical difference. Even the price wouldn't be that different, the 5800 for example has multifrequency 3.5G telephony but launched for substantially less than the N810 or N800 did.
At most the inclusion of telephony would probably only add maybe 5-10% to the total price, but even that might disappear if the increased sales reduce production costs. Large batches of telephony devices may be cheaper to make than small batches of non-telephony devices (and of course increased userbase would virtually guarantee a much greater supply of software and services for Maemo devices).
I can see lots of upsides to offering telephony as an option, I can't see any downsides at all.
| The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to krisse For This Useful Post: | ||
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2009-05-12
, 16:51
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@ Vancouver, BC, Canada
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#24
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PURE SPECULATION, INFORMED BY NO INSIDE KNOWLEDGE, FOLLOWS:
The oFono project really introduces a "wild card" into the mobile phone world. The only way Nokia or the carriers are going to be able to control how the users use their phones is to do one of three things to the supposedly open source telephony stack:
Last edited by qole; 2009-05-12 at 16:54.
The oFono project really introduces a "wild card" into the mobile phone world. The only way Nokia or the carriers are going to be able to control how the users use their phones is to do one of three things to the supposedly open source telephony stack:
- Closed: Keep the modem plugins as binaries with closed APIs
- Hobbled: Let the modem drivers be open source, but strip out any parts that you don't want developers to use (this might be in conjunction with 1, making some parts of the driver open and some parts closed)
- Broken: The Nokia hardware, as released, is physically incapable of voice, or the source code is purposely misleading, or the portion of oFono being used in Maemo 5 is incompatible with the open source project in critical ways
Originally Posted by Peter@Maemo Marketing
Maemo 5 will include HSPA data which obviously needs some kind of cellular modem to work. So, some of the work in the oFono project will be commercialised in Maemo 5.
Originally Posted by tso
EDIT: I notice the diagram is gone. Perhaps because of the "plugin inside the gpl border" issue? Or maybe too much bandwidth?
the diagram shows the nokia plugin in side the gpl border...
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Last edited by qole; 2009-05-12 at 16:54.
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2009-05-12
, 21:07
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@ NJ, USA
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#25
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Originally Posted by krisse
The cell carriers are absolutely strangling all innovation in the cell space in the US. I would have to guess that whatever cell support makes it into a n9xx tablet will be data only. And I would also guess that tablet won't do well in the US.
Some people seem to think telephony means control by network operators but that just isn't the case.
...
Practically all Nokia devices are available as unbranded unlocked devices straight from electronics retailers with no network operator involvement at all, in fact the unbranded versions come out a lot sooner. Even if you're in America, where unbranded phones have traditionally been a rarity, Amazon US sell them, Dell US sell them, Nokia US's website sells them, and here in Europe practically every retailer sells unbranded phones.
Even if the new Maemo devices had telephony, you could just ignore it, it wouldn't make any practical difference. Even the price wouldn't be that different, the 5800 for example has multifrequency 3.5G telephony but launched for substantially less than the N810 or N800 did.
...
I can see lots of upsides to offering telephony as an option, I can't see any downsides at all.
Why?
Data plans that aren't tied to phones directly are capped rather heavily, and nearly all phones are highly controlled and regulated by the carrier. Exceptions: Google Android and Apple iPhone. Is Nokia big enough to have Google's brand pull? How about Apple's? Didn't think so. And even then the carrier has final say on what apps are offered for those devices on their stores.
Plus I would like the tablet to be a great tablet and computer, and not a half-baked phone because of having to jam the phone components into it. Phones should be dirt cheap feature phones that do voice and that's it. Give me rich data on a handheld like the N8xx and N9xx's can deliver.
Can it do VOIP? Sure, but I'm not going to pay for VOIP service when I already pay for it on my cell, and if I don't buy VOIP than everyone else I know who DOESN'T use VOIP can't call me and I can't call them.
I think Nokia knows enough to stick with data only for Maemo.
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2009-05-12
, 21:34
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@ Alexandria, VA, USA
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#26
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What are the chances that it's based in part on OpenIMSCore? I'm thinking of the "oFono Core Stack" box in the High Level Architecture diagram.
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2009-05-12
, 23:20
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@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#27
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Originally Posted by InfinityDevil
Surely you're jesting. Nokia is the world's largest mobile phone manufacturer (with nearly a 40% global market share), #81 on Forbes' Global 2000 list (on which Google and Apple don't even rank), and generally kicks Google and Apple's asses.
Is Nokia big enough to have Google's brand pull? How about Apple's? Didn't think so.
Now, if you're talking specifically about the US, yes, Nokia does not have the strength here that they do overseas. But, globally, Apple and Google don't compare.
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Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
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2009-05-12
, 23:41
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@ Irving, TX
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#28
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Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
Yeah... even Intel (which everyone knows...) is just a small company: They have only about 82 thousand employees while Nokia has over 120 thousand... Microsoft is also a lightweight company with less than 100 thousand employees...
Surely you're jesting. Nokia is the world's largest mobile phone manufacturer (with nearly a 40% global market share), #81 on Forbes' Global 2000 list (on which Google and Apple don't even rank), and generally kicks Google and Apple's asses.
Now, if you're talking specifically about the US, yes, Nokia does not have the strength here that they do overseas. But, globally, Apple and Google don't compare.
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2009-05-13
, 03:38
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@ norway
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#29
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iirc, at one point nokia was a noshow on the US market because it refused the operator to modify firmwares...
basically, nokia is a foreign producer, apple and google is domestic...
basically, nokia is a foreign producer, apple and google is domestic...
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2009-05-13
, 05:31
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Posts: 3,397 |
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Joined on Jul 2008
@ Netherlands
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#30
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Originally Posted by InfinityDevil
Why does that depend on HS*PA working yes/no. Based on the specifications of Maemo 5 and RX-51 there are many other reasons a United States resident would consider to buy such device.
And I would also guess that tablet won't do well in the US.
Can it do VOIP? Sure, but I'm not going to pay for VOIP service when I already pay for it on my cell, and if I don't buy VOIP than everyone else I know who DOESN'T use VOIP can't call me and I can't call them.
You could opt to either use your cellphone with GSM + data (probably a so-called smartphone) or you use the RX-51. Or you toss in the SIM card in your RX-51. You can even log in several times on one SIP server allowing you to phone with either logged in client, but only the last logged in client will be able to receive an incoming call.
I think Nokia knows enough to stick with data only for Maemo.
So, for now, you could combine that with a simple Nokia phone for GSM (prepaid or subscription). That wouldn't cost much, so it'd allow more budget for the tablet and the data-only subscription.
Also, this model is not for Maemo only (Intel does not use Maemo, but uses Hildon). It is probably also useful for Moblin. And maybe even S60 (Qt has DBus support).
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So far there has been no official confirmation or denial of a cellular telephony stack in Fremantle. We have seen some intriguing hints (mysterious keypad layouts, BT/CSD telephony stack, interesting call states defined in MCE, MIDI playback, Vibra API to name a few) in the alpha/beta SDKs but none of these is quite a smoking gun on its own. Put them all together though and it's easy to jump to conclusions.
It may be that the cellular call support is not quite ready yet and will come in Harmattan, or there will be a different (closed-source) stack in Fremantle but IMHO it looks like we'll see it in maemo sooner or later. Now I don't necessarily think that's a good thing (I don't need a phone personally and FWIW I fully agree with Ari Jaaksi's 2005 views on this), but since the sacrifices necessary for making hildon usable as a phone UI have already been made (but let's keep that discussion out of this thread) I don't care that much. Just get the Fremantle devices, whatever they may be, stable and let us buy them please :-)