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Extra softwares in Sailfish using CLI, repositories, etc (117)
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2014-10-30
, 10:10
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Posts: 385 |
Thanked: 426 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Gothenburg, Sweden
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#472
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@flegmatik: Starting to get kind of doubtful about this Qi-thing anyway. Fixed one for my wife and me. A bundle-kit with receiver and charger on dx.com. The receiver was an S4 one that I resolder to switch polarity of the pins.
It works, but the Jolla gets hot as hell. It doesn't feel healthy at all.
@dave999: 1, X and 2.
Ok, seriously, probably X.
Last edited by Larswad; 2014-10-30 at 10:12.
It works, but the Jolla gets hot as hell. It doesn't feel healthy at all.
@dave999: 1, X and 2.
Ok, seriously, probably X.
Last edited by Larswad; 2014-10-30 at 10:12.
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2014-10-30
, 10:15
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Posts: 338 |
Thanked: 496 times |
Joined on Oct 2010
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#473
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Originally Posted by juiceme
If they miss showing something new at MWC it almost certainly means they failed to meet their own deadlines. In fact I'd be very worried about their future if they didn't. As for when a new phone would actually be available, who knows.
Hey people where on earth you get the idea that a new model is going to be available anytime soonish?
This is just wishful thinking IMHO, there has been no announcement whatsoever and AFAIK no work being done on updating the HW platform. And why should there be, the current HW is pretty neat and usable right now.
Maybe in a few years time, when there is something technologically new/exiting/useful available it would make sense to upgrade the HW platform.
With Jolla it is not about getting the newest HW, it is about getting the most exiting SW platform.
Besides, as I speculated in http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=449 it well might be possible to adapt the TOHKBD to a new HW interface pretty easily/cheaply.
A few years? Without a new phone next year, Jolla won't have a saleable product.
Exciting software can't come without reasonably capable hardware. Expecting miracles from low end hardware is irrational. Sailfish with a few apps open is anything but a fast or smooth experience on the existing hardware ... and it's only likely to get worse as the level of complexity and resource requirements increase (as per 1.1).
There's every reason to abandon the existing TOH shape, size and fit. It leads to a blocky, ungainly phone with extremely poor environmental sealing. Also it means another completely bespoke package for the phone, which their OEM has to work around. If they share basic physical platform with other phones, or slightly modified, costs are considerably lower and QC issues are unlikely to be as bad.
Besides ... are you seriously expecting Jolla to use exactly the same camera and lens? No? Well you'll need to cut a new hole in all your TOHs for a new camera on a new Jolla phone.
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2014-10-30
, 10:28
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Posts: 1,104 |
Thanked: 5,652 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Holland
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#474
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Originally Posted by bluefoot
no, but is sw development and hw pins are the same (but different position) making new product is super easy, r&d would be very low and prices would drop.
Besides ... are you seriously expecting Jolla to use exactly the same camera and lens? No? Well you'll need to cut a new hole in all your TOHs for a new camera on a new Jolla phone.
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2014-10-30
, 12:11
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Community Council |
Posts: 4,920 |
Thanked: 12,867 times |
Joined on May 2012
@ Southerrn Finland
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#475
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Originally Posted by bluefoot
I have a feeling we have already been at this before... still I just cannot let picking on your point...
Exciting software can't come without reasonably capable hardware. Expecting miracles from low end hardware is irrational. Sailfish with a few apps open is anything but a fast or smooth experience on the existing hardware ... and it's only likely to get worse as the level of complexity and resource requirements increase (as per 1.1).
I do not know how you manage to use your device to make it slow?
Mine is fast and smooth regardless how many applications I am running on there. (most of the time under 10 but how many do you usually need anyway?)
Or else we have totally different expectation on what a device should feel like?
Originally Posted by bluefoot
I agree on the environmental shielding. However it would be much more difficult to have DIY's if the TOH concept was fitted as IP-something-protection; I believe probably impossible to manufacture with 3d printers.
There's every reason to abandon the existing TOH shape, size and fit. It leads to a blocky, ungainly phone with extremely poor environmental sealing.
About the form factor and look&feel of the device design; I find it beautiful and intrestingly different from other devices whish usually follow the soapbox-design-from-samsung likeness.
Originally Posted by bluefoot
I have no idea what are you talking about here?
Also it means another completely bespoke package for the phone, which their OEM has to work around. If they share basic physical platform with other phones, or slightly modified, costs are considerably lower and QC issues are unlikely to be as bad.
Originally Posted by bluefoot
Camera could be better, yes of course, but the size/positioning of the camera module could well be same in future models.
Besides ... are you seriously expecting Jolla to use exactly the same camera and lens? No? Well you'll need to cut a new hole in all your TOHs for a new camera on a new Jolla phone.
(The said future models which will not be released in at least a year, maybe longer.)
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2014-10-30
, 14:37
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Posts: 338 |
Thanked: 496 times |
Joined on Oct 2010
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#476
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Originally Posted by dirkvl
That would certainly be a better situation, and one which ought to be perfectly possible if the TOH concept is retained. Retaining exact size or fit of current TOH would be a disaster for the new phone imo.
no, but is sw development and hw pins are the same (but different position) making new product is super easy, r&d would be very low and prices would drop.
Originally Posted by juiceme
- Quite simply. By using it. Without the GPU idle and ZRAM modules from Warehouse, it's pretty piss poor. What are you comparing it to? The N900? Then I guess it's relatively fast and smooth. The level of freeze, frame drops, general stutter and lag really hasn't been a thing on mid-range and above Android devices (carrier bloatware notwithstanding), iphone or BB10 for a while ... though with the latter there was occasional stutter on earlier versions. The most bizarre thing I find about these people claiming that Sailfish on the Jolla is so fast and smooth, is that they usually also argue that more powerful hardware in the near future is unneeded and would barely offer any benefit. Do they even believe this themselves? Sailfish has 'proper' multitasking, so if you're going to make real use of that or be a power user, you're definitely going to benefit greatly from better hardware ... add Alien Dalvik in on top of this, and an almost bottom of the range Qualcomm SoC and 1GB of RAM is perhaps not all that you could ever want. I don't believe you for a second that your device is "always fast and smooth", unless you're one of the people that swear blind they can see no difference between 30hz and 120hz and never notice frame drops (which are constant on sailfish).
I do not know how you manage to use your device to make it slow?
Mine is fast and smooth regardless how many applications I am running on there. (most of the time under 10 but how many do you usually need anyway?)
Or else we have totally different expectation on what a device should feel like?
I agree on the environmental shielding. However it would be much more difficult to have DIY's if the TOH concept was fitted as IP-something-protection; I believe probably impossible to manufacture with 3d printers.
About the form factor and look&feel of the device design; I find it beautiful and intrestingly different from other devices whish usually follow the soapbox-design-from-samsung likeness.
I have no idea what are you talking about here?
Camera could be better, yes of course, but the size/positioning of the camera module could well be same in future models.
(The said future models which will not be released in at least a year, maybe longer.)
- There is a very big middle ground between IP certification and the environmental sealing that the existing TOH offers. It should be improved on a new device.
- Aesthetically and ergonomically the existing Jolla is a mess. It's a clunky brick with huge bezels and an inexplicably gigantic bottom bezel when the device has no hard or softkeys. Beautiful ... not sure you'll find too many takers outside these forums for that assessment.
- I think it's fairly obvious what I'm talking about with regard to production and design considerations that an unchanged TOH for the next phone would dictate.
- I think we can consider Jolla a dead duck if their new phone isn't on the market by this time next year. I'm pretty sure your confident assertation that it'll be at least a year or longer is not compatible with plans they may have.
Last edited by bluefoot; 2014-10-30 at 14:44.
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2014-10-30
, 15:25
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Posts: 84 |
Thanked: 79 times |
Joined on Dec 2013
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#477
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Originally Posted by bluefoot
It requires that the outer dimensons of the phone stays same and that the camera, usb connector, etc stays at the same places
I think it's fairly obvious what I'm talking about with regard to production and design considerations that an unchanged TOH for the next phone would dictate.
Screen can grow (or shrink) a little and better sealing is certainly possible.
But isn't this very off topic for this thread?
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2014-10-30
, 16:13
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Posts: 1,269 |
Thanked: 3,961 times |
Joined on May 2011
@ Brazil
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#478
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Originally Posted by bluefoot
See my numerical calculations bechmarks of NumPy comparing 3 note/netbooks and 6 tablets & smartphones. Jolla smartphone is faster than Nexus 4 in 3 of 4 benchmarks (both using 1 CPU core and Sailfish OS) . In 2 of 4 benchmarks, Jolla smartphone is faster than a Asus 1005HA netbook.
What are you comparing it to? The N900? Then I guess it's relatively fast and smooth.
...
The most bizarre thing I find about these people claiming that Sailfish on the Jolla is so fast and smooth, is that they usually also argue that more powerful hardware in the near future is unneeded and would barely offer any benefit. Do they even believe this themselves? Sailfish has 'proper' multitasking, so if you're going to make real use of that or be a power user, you're definitely going to benefit greatly from better hardware ... add Alien Dalvik in on top of this, and an almost bottom of the range Qualcomm SoC and 1GB of RAM is perhaps not all that you could ever want.
Compare how little RAM Sailfish uses with Android, how little battery drain, etc. Sailfish has many advantages over other Mobile OS.
Originally Posted by bluefoot
I also think that Jolla needs to release Jolla 2 smartphone in 2015 to attract new Sailfish users. But not everybody needs/wants to upgrade every year. For example, my Nokia N9 from 11/2011 still works very well, including its battery, multitasking, etc. I also expect to use my Jolla smartphone for some (2-4) years.
- I think we can consider Jolla a dead duck if their new phone isn't on the market by this time next year. I'm pretty sure your confident assertation that it'll be at least a year or longer is not compatible with plans they may have.
__________________
Python, C/C++, Qt and CAS developer. For Maemo/MeeGo/Sailfish :
Integral, Derivative, Limit - calculating mathematical integrals, derivatives and limits. SymPy - Computer Algebra System.
MatPlotLib - 2D & 3D plots in Python. IPython - Python interactive shell.
-- My blog about mobile & scientific computing ---
Sailfish : Sony Xperia X, Gemini, Jolla, Jolla C, Jolla Tablet, Nexus 4. Nokia N9, N900, N810.
Python, C/C++, Qt and CAS developer. For Maemo/MeeGo/Sailfish :
Integral, Derivative, Limit - calculating mathematical integrals, derivatives and limits. SymPy - Computer Algebra System.
MatPlotLib - 2D & 3D plots in Python. IPython - Python interactive shell.
-- My blog about mobile & scientific computing ---
Sailfish : Sony Xperia X, Gemini, Jolla, Jolla C, Jolla Tablet, Nexus 4. Nokia N9, N900, N810.
Last edited by rcolistete; 2014-10-30 at 16:18.
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2014-10-30
, 16:17
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Community Council |
Posts: 4,920 |
Thanked: 12,867 times |
Joined on May 2012
@ Southerrn Finland
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#479
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Originally Posted by bluefoot
My previous device was N9. Before that I had various Symbian devices.
What are you comparing it to? The N900? Then I guess it's relatively fast and smooth.
Originally Posted by bluefoot
I have heard that using Alien Dalvik on Jolla makes it slow. That's possible, usually anything Androidish is slow.
The level of freeze, frame drops, general stutter and lag really hasn't been a thing on mid-range and above Android devices (carrier bloatware notwithstanding), iphone or BB10 for a while ... though with the latter there was occasional stutter on earlier versions. The most bizarre thing I find about these people claiming that Sailfish on the Jolla is so fast and smooth, is that they usually also argue that more powerful hardware in the near future is unneeded and would barely offer any benefit. Do they even believe this themselves? Sailfish has 'proper' multitasking, so if you're going to make real use of that or be a power user, you're definitely going to benefit greatly from better hardware ... add Alien Dalvik in on top of this, and an almost bottom of the range Qualcomm SoC and 1GB of RAM is perhaps not all that you could ever want.
I however have not ever used it, so that's an irrelevant thing to me.
Originally Posted by bluefoot
I have not measured any framerates with the device, how do you do that? Are you referring to some game framerates when running non-native games or something?
I don't believe you for a second that your device is "always fast and smooth", unless you're one of the people that swear blind they can see no difference between 30hz and 120hz and never notice frame drops (which are constant on sailfish).
Originally Posted by bluefoot
Yes, no argument there, it could be better
There is a very big middle ground between IP certification and the environmental sealing that the existing TOH offers. It should be improved on a new device.
Originally Posted by bluefoot
Opinions differ
Aesthetically and ergonomically the existing Jolla is a mess. It's a clunky brick with huge bezels and an inexplicably gigantic bottom bezel when the device has no hard or softkeys. Beautiful ... not sure you'll find too many takers outside these forums for that assessment.
Originally Posted by bluefoot
I have no problem with the current TOH physical interface
I think it's fairly obvious what I'm talking about with regard to production and design considerations that an unchanged TOH for the next phone would dictate.
Originally Posted by bluefoot
There are lots of people who like to change their devices often, buying a new generation device every year.
I think we can consider Jolla a dead duck if their new phone isn't on the market by this time next year. I'm pretty sure your confident assertation that it'll be at least a year or longer is not compatible with plans they may have.
I do not see a point there, as long as the existing device fulfills my expectations and is not broken yet. (I tend to break/wear down my devices in 3...4 years, after that I need to get a new one)
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2014-10-30
, 16:43
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Posts: 728 |
Thanked: 1,217 times |
Joined on Oct 2011
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#480
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Just a sanity check... are we still on topic? Is it worth branching the concerns about Jolla's hardware quality/performance to another thread?
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| keyboard, kickstarter, other half, tohkbd |
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1. A new countdown
X. Dirk just open when ready
2. Surprise. Anything is possible
Do something for the climate today! Anything!
I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...