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2011-07-18
, 13:27
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Posts: 249 |
Thanked: 277 times |
Joined on May 2010
@ Brighton, UK
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#102
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My take on things from an organisational perspective is quite simple. As other have said, we need to decide what we want to happen.
For me, that means I want development to continue on the Maemo platform, but under the acknowledgement that no new hardware is going to be produced compatible with the closed components, and that directs the approach that needs to be taken. In order to perpetuate Maemo's legacy we need to ensure it's code can be easily used elsewhere, and that means having somewhere to focus closed-source-replacement and portability efforts. I can appreciate why stkeeps decided the Meego CE was the way to achieve this goal...but I can't help but feel it throws out too much of the baby with the bathwater. I feel we need to become the similar to the Meego infrastructure, just obviously with a greater focus on Maemo.
To me, that means we need development infrastructure: mailing lists, forums, the wiki, a bugtracker, source control, irc logging, and of course, the autobuilder. Everything else is just fluff. Once we have those components, we can integrate them far better than is currently the case.
Cordia is a great project, but I'm always wary of forks as they usually just fragment an already small developer base. I want the bugs they've fixed and the code improvements they're making included in the software running on my Maemo device. We can bring Maemo to Meego if you will, but we shouldn't leave Maemo behind. Likewise, all the love going into the CSSU should serve to help the Cordia project.
I'm struggling to think of examples of this for illustration, but I guess the best I can manage is the awesome cooperation between the ReactOS and WINE teams (or perhaps the relationship between the various WINE forks).
I guess that' brain dump will do for now.
...oh, one additional side note is Qt's Maemo support (overall, i.e. Creator, not just the libs). It's treated very much as a bolted-on feature...do we know how long that will hang around before it gets "cleaned away"?
For me, that means I want development to continue on the Maemo platform, but under the acknowledgement that no new hardware is going to be produced compatible with the closed components, and that directs the approach that needs to be taken. In order to perpetuate Maemo's legacy we need to ensure it's code can be easily used elsewhere, and that means having somewhere to focus closed-source-replacement and portability efforts. I can appreciate why stkeeps decided the Meego CE was the way to achieve this goal...but I can't help but feel it throws out too much of the baby with the bathwater. I feel we need to become the similar to the Meego infrastructure, just obviously with a greater focus on Maemo.
To me, that means we need development infrastructure: mailing lists, forums, the wiki, a bugtracker, source control, irc logging, and of course, the autobuilder. Everything else is just fluff. Once we have those components, we can integrate them far better than is currently the case.
Cordia is a great project, but I'm always wary of forks as they usually just fragment an already small developer base. I want the bugs they've fixed and the code improvements they're making included in the software running on my Maemo device. We can bring Maemo to Meego if you will, but we shouldn't leave Maemo behind. Likewise, all the love going into the CSSU should serve to help the Cordia project.
I'm struggling to think of examples of this for illustration, but I guess the best I can manage is the awesome cooperation between the ReactOS and WINE teams (or perhaps the relationship between the various WINE forks).
I guess that' brain dump will do for now.
...oh, one additional side note is Qt's Maemo support (overall, i.e. Creator, not just the libs). It's treated very much as a bolted-on feature...do we know how long that will hang around before it gets "cleaned away"?
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2011-07-18
, 13:40
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Posts: 1,513 |
Thanked: 2,248 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ US
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#103
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Originally Posted by lma
As one member of Council, let me say thanks for the flurry of recent comments. Let me add some input of my own as well. Catering to Android or all mobile device users is a non-starter as the field is crowded and there is no need.
-1 on all of the above. Such places may be useful, but they have no business being called maemo.org.Do we aim to become a popular, non-official, alternative MeeGo site with a different culture?
Do we expand in a different direction, embrace Android, and try to carve out a space among the many sites already catering to Android users?
Do we try to become a community serving all mobile device users?
Something else?
Let's not take our eyes off the prize. What makes sense to me is continuing to promote some maemo-based software as an open source alternative for mobile phones and tablets. Open source is why the majority of developers are here in the first place and we all want open mobiles. The N9 and any future Nokia MeeGo devices will have a closed UX layer. (It would also not be surprising to see closed services on a future Nokia MeeGo device.) MeeGo is no longer actively maintaining a open handset UX. So there is a place and a need in the future for an open source UX. That is something maemo.org has done in the past and can continue to do in the future.
maemo.org still has some inertia. What has been done so far with EOL'd hardware is impressive. My concern is that if we stop now, what has been put together for will never again be leveraged in this generation of mobiles. Sources tend to get lost, etc. I see a closed world of iOS, Android and WP7 otherwise.
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2011-07-18
, 14:14
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Banned |
Posts: 3,412 |
Thanked: 1,043 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#104
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Originally Posted by SD69
As much as i agree with the essence of your post i still see a hurdle that cannot be crossed and that is the "open handset" because without this development can not take place without hurdles.
As one member of Council, let me say thanks for the flurry of recent comments. Let me add some input of my own as well. Catering to Android or all mobile device users is a non-starter as the field is crowded and there is no need.
Let's not take our eyes off the prize. What makes sense to me is continuing to promote some maemo-based software as an open source alternative for mobile phones and tablets. Open source is why the majority of developers are here in the first place and we all want open mobiles. The N9 and any future Nokia MeeGo devices will have a closed UX layer. (It would also not be surprising to see closed services on a future Nokia MeeGo device.) MeeGo is no longer actively maintaining a open handset UX. So there is a place and a need in the future for an open source UX. That is something maemo.org has done in the past and can continue to do in the future.
maemo.org still has some inertia. What has been done so far with EOL'd hardware is impressive. My concern is that if we stop now, what has been put together for will never again be leveraged in this generation of mobiles. Sources tend to get lost, etc. I see a closed world of iOS, Android and WP7 otherwise.
You all need to ask this question on your next meeting ... the N900 has been out for how long now? and to date no completed os has been developed to improve or take over the current version from Nokia, so why has this happened?.
If i read your post correct then to have Maemo developed fully within this community then the first thing it had better do is source a manufacturer that will give the hardware that is fully open !.
This part of your post got me..... "maemo.org still has some inertia. What has been done so far with EOL'd hardware is impressive"
now i would like to know what part of development created within this community that is in my eyes "impressive" because where i stand it does not seem anything but a total mess jumbled together with little or no organisation.
I see this council or commitee as dreamers and not getting to where it should be at, instead they wait for a miracle to happen and it is just not coming together.
Everyone reading this will probably think... oh here we go again ... but when you look at the facts of what is happening right now what with MeeGo taking a different course than it should have, taking it away from the openess it said it would be, and Maemo grinding to a halt because of closed whatever, it kind of smacks you in the face what a disaster it all is.
I want to see development happen but not blinded development as we have on the N900 so where do we go from here?.
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2011-07-18
, 14:35
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Posts: 2,829 |
Thanked: 1,459 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Finland
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#106
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oh here we go again
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...heup64244.jpg/
Last edited by slender; 2011-07-18 at 14:38.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...heup64244.jpg/
__________________
TMO links: [iSpy] - [Power search] - [Most thanked] - [Cordia - Maemo5 UI on top MeeGo Core] - [CommunitySSU]
TMO links: [iSpy] - [Power search] - [Most thanked] - [Cordia - Maemo5 UI on top MeeGo Core] - [CommunitySSU]
Last edited by slender; 2011-07-18 at 14:38.
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2011-07-18
, 15:33
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Posts: 4,384 |
Thanked: 5,524 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou
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#107
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@abill: this thread started out as an update by the council about Nokia's planned separation from this community, and the topic now should be a (constructive) discussion on where things are going and how we can smoothly transition/make preparations toward that direction.
Do think twice about what you're saying and how it figures into the ongoing discussion.
Do think twice about what you're saying and how it figures into the ongoing discussion.
__________________
Class .. : Power User
Humor .. : [#####-----] | Alignment: Pragmatist
Patience : [###-------] | Weapon(s): Galaxy Note + BB Bold Touch 9900
Agro ... : [###-------] | Relic(s) : iPhone 4S, Atrix, Milestone, N900, N800, N95, HTC G1, Treos, Zauri, BB 9000, BB 9700, etc
Class .. : Power User
Humor .. : [#####-----] | Alignment: Pragmatist
Patience : [###-------] | Weapon(s): Galaxy Note + BB Bold Touch 9900
Agro ... : [###-------] | Relic(s) : iPhone 4S, Atrix, Milestone, N900, N800, N95, HTC G1, Treos, Zauri, BB 9000, BB 9700, etc
Follow the MeeGo Coding Competition!
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2011-07-18
, 21:48
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Posts: 4,672 |
Thanked: 5,455 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Springfield, MA, USA
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#108
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Originally Posted by Rauha
How can we best shoehorn Maemo onto these new devices? Will it be possible to write a bootstrap loader?
Mr. danramos can make as much fun about Nokia as he wants, but keep your sarcasm away from those rubber boots. Still the best damn rubber boots on the planet. http://www.nokianfootwear.fi/eng/
And do not start giving Elop any ideas about those boots either. He would install Office & Powerpoint on the heels and add burning platform boots in the product catalogue.
No thanks.
Originally Posted by ysss
True, and you're right, but I think he makes a good point of topic for future conversations with Nokia. They've done it again--even after we gave them flack for it after the N8x0's, for all the closed-source and the WONTFIXES and the FIXED IN FREMANTLE and generally neglecting customers in the myriad ways that they did after building up good faith and reputation on claims of openness and community. The community council IS still talking to Nokia, right? They DO still have relevance, I would hope.
@abill: this thread started out as an update by the council about Nokia's planned separation from this community, and the topic now should be a (constructive) discussion on where things are going and how we can smoothly transition/make preparations toward that direction.
Do think twice about what you're saying and how it figures into the ongoing discussion.
__________________
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
| The Following User Says Thank You to danramos For This Useful Post: | ||
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2011-07-18
, 23:34
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Posts: 5,028 |
Thanked: 8,613 times |
Joined on Mar 2011
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#109
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I totally agree with mr_jrt - No matter if "mainline" will focus around Cordia or expanding maemo platform, replacing as much closed source elements as we can is most important thing to do. By the way, that why i was advocating Cordia so much - as Open Source(ich) replacement for closed source UX's 
Many "milestones" were achieved long time before anyone would even think of naming them like that, other are almost finished (open media player), another were researched intensively, but require *lot* work to make them 100% usable ( *drums&fanfares* bme replacement...). I'm no expert in those matters, so I may be wrong, but things like Phone app are near impossible to replace them with Open things, right?
I also agree with no-go for focusing on tablets all-together. We're Maemo (or whatever we want to call us, if Nokia won't like to give trademarks - which is most likely to happen IMO), and I don't see a point in drowning into grey mass of android/whatever forums/portals.
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Side note: I'm relatively "new" user, by standards here, but i learned to add abil_uk into ignore list after reading 3-4 post of this *individual*. So, I'm really surprised, that much "older" community members continue few pages long, pointless discussion with him/her/it. Of course, in open world everyone got right to talk (almost) whatever he/she/it want. Just like everyone else have right to hit "ignore" button. Thanks for listening
Many "milestones" were achieved long time before anyone would even think of naming them like that, other are almost finished (open media player), another were researched intensively, but require *lot* work to make them 100% usable ( *drums&fanfares* bme replacement...). I'm no expert in those matters, so I may be wrong, but things like Phone app are near impossible to replace them with Open things, right?
I also agree with no-go for focusing on tablets all-together. We're Maemo (or whatever we want to call us, if Nokia won't like to give trademarks - which is most likely to happen IMO), and I don't see a point in drowning into grey mass of android/whatever forums/portals.
---
Side note: I'm relatively "new" user, by standards here, but i learned to add abil_uk into ignore list after reading 3-4 post of this *individual*. So, I'm really surprised, that much "older" community members continue few pages long, pointless discussion with him/her/it. Of course, in open world everyone got right to talk (almost) whatever he/she/it want. Just like everyone else have right to hit "ignore" button. Thanks for listening
__________________
N900's aluminum backcover / body replacement
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N900's HDMI-Out
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Camera cover MOD
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Measure battery's real capacity on-device
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TrueCrypt 7.1 | ereswap | bnf
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Hardware's mods research is costly. To support my work, please consider donating. Thank You!
N900's aluminum backcover / body replacement
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N900's HDMI-Out
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Camera cover MOD
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Measure battery's real capacity on-device
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TrueCrypt 7.1 | ereswap | bnf
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Hardware's mods research is costly. To support my work, please consider donating. Thank You!
| The Following User Says Thank You to Estel For This Useful Post: | ||
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2011-07-19
, 01:08
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Banned |
Posts: 3,412 |
Thanked: 1,043 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#110
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Here is an idea for the Council, approach Intel and find out the possibilities of making a mobile device in a complete form then put together a team of dev's from this community and away you go 
it will give the community plenty to do with its very own os and it will not only sell like hot cakes it will make the community famous.... now there is a thought .
it will give the community plenty to do with its very own os and it will not only sell like hot cakes it will make the community famous.... now there is a thought .
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| Tags |
| goodbye nokia, maemo.org, troll party, winding down |
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And do not start giving Elop any ideas about those boots either. He would install Office & Powerpoint on the heels and add burning platform boots in the product catalogue.
No thanks.