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Posts: 225 | Thanked: 68 times | Joined on Feb 2006
#41
Originally Posted by pycage View Post
This story gives me the impression that Fremantle, from a developer's point of view, is already obsolete even before it was released.

I'm not a developer, I'm an 'end-user'. And I'm confused.

I have a pc instead of a mac because I can take out hardware components and change them. I liked the idea of 770 and 800 as "open source" because it suggested a wide range of apps and stuff to give the units life.

I fully understand planning years ahead, for hardware that might not even exist, for deals that might or might not be made.

so my confusion here is that 'rover' might come with an OS that will be obsolete within a year and might not run the next one, and that the development work some people are doing now on all the new aspects for that device and OS won't be carried through to the next gen?

Taken with the undeniable fact that 'rover' is really, really late (in terms of both the competition and the lineage of NITs), I'm really confused as to what's going on.

can anone explain in simple terms?
 
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#42
Originally Posted by kate View Post
You should not consider Qt and OpenGL-ES as alternatives,
they are rather than supporting each other. OpenGL-ES is used
accelerating lo of the new animated UI effects and if you would like make OpenGL-ES application, Qt can act as wrapper and provide
lot of supporting API's.
From a developer's personal standpoint - presently 3D is a bit of grey area in Maemo 5. No Qt release I've seen so far (Fremantle betas/extras-devel) included the QtOpenGL module yet, there is some uncertainty about how Clutter comes into play, will we have a game mode, will that have special considerations, etc... The potential is definitely there, but Fremantle is far from ready to start start serious 3D app/game development/porting (like my my favorite QtOpenGL app) by developers without Nokia hats.
 
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#43
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
One could also discuss, of course, the wisdom of Nokia's decision to drop GTK in favor of Qt, but then again... why? It's one of those moments in life where suit and tie beats reason.
FWIW, I think switching to Qt sounds more like a developer-driven decision than a "suit&tie" matter; many developers find it weird that we are still coding in C in 2009, bindings notwithstanding.
 
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#44
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
... in the long run, it's moves like these that earn Nokia trust ...
You really think Nokia is "showing their cards" here? I don't. I think there's a missing piece of the jigsaw which hasn't dawned on us yet.

I can't image what it is, but I think it will be big. Bigger than "GTK vs. QT"; that's so 5-years-ago. Nokia didn't buy TrollTech and the rest of Symbian just for the fun of it. Big money changed hands and Nokia must have some kind of big-picture plan.

Maybe Symbian and Maemo are being somehow combined. Maybe there's some innovative migration path to bring the Symbian masses to Maemo. And why is Nokia funding a community debmaster? There's gotta be more of a reason behind it than just being nice to us. It's gotta somehow relate to the future product directions.

I hope when the software and hardware bombshell drops it's something awesome rather than something pathetic. It's really hard to call at this point.

Regards,
Roger
 

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#45
Originally Posted by vivainio View Post
many developers find it weird that we are still coding in C in 2009, bindings notwithstanding.
Many developers find it weird that people are still coding in C++ in 2009.

Roger.
 

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#46
Originally Posted by attila77 View Post
From a developer's personal standpoint - presently 3D is a bit of grey area in Maemo 5. No Qt release I've seen so far (Fremantle betas/extras-devel) included the QtOpenGL module yet, there is some uncertainty about how Clutter comes into play, will we have a game mode, will that have special considerations, etc... The potential is definitely there, but Fremantle is far from ready to start start serious 3D app/game development/porting (like my my favorite QtOpenGL app) by developers without Nokia hats.
OpenGL module should be there in extras-devel if not, please
report error to bugzilla. It has been released even before extras-devel in qt4.garage,maemo.org. I had Qt OpenGL-ES2.0
demos running in last spring in ELC in Beagleboard just
based on publicly available tools and libraies.

I had couple of real life demos about using Frematle OpenGL in
reali life game deveopment here in GCDS, hopefully organizers
get presentation videos on line soon.

I did myself port from Desktop OpenGL 2.0 based .obj model
viewer and it was just couple of hours work.
 

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#47
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
One could also discuss, of course, the wisdom of Nokia's decision to drop GTK in favor of Qt, but then again... why? It's one of those moments in life where suit and tie beats reason. Sure it's not a wise thing to do, but how could they not do it once they spent all this money on acquiring former trolltech?
We are not in static world, to keep our position we need to run.
For mobile device developers view, static box-layout UI's are history.
Just as an example, here in GCDS most of Qt presentations handled
different aspects of animated UI development. We just need to
move to next generation toolkit in some phase, you should see
choice much more between Qt or Clutter than Qt vs GTK+ .

There is still place for static widgets and everything does not need
to have fancy animations . We can also improve lot of traditional
application's usability with good compositing window manager.
 

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#48
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
...
One could also discuss, of course, the wisdom of Nokia's decision to drop GTK in favor of Qt, but then again... why? It's one of those moments in life where suit and tie beats reason. Sure it's not a wise thing to do, but how could they not do it once they spent all this money on acquiring former trolltech?

Within all these constraints, announcing the move now was the only sane thing to do. They could have chosen not to say anything in order to make developers feel more confident about the future of their GTK-based Fremantle projects.... But in the long run, it's moves like these that earn Nokia trust. (At least I hope so. I really do.)
I guess if I was in the same situation, I'd do the same thing... You could almost see this announcement as "preemptive damage control"... I can't help but feel sorry for the Nokia Maemo developers who worked so hard on this Clutter / GTK based Fremantle and now are going to have to switch everything over to QT for Harmattan...

EDIT: Even if it isn't a "suit and tie" decision, but a developer one, it is still going to be a hard job turning the ship so sharply...
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Last edited by qole; 2009-07-06 at 17:07.
 

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#49
Originally Posted by vivainio View Post
FWIW, I think switching to Qt sounds more like a developer-driven decision than a "suit&tie" matter
This is "suit&tie" decision on high level in terms of Nokia ecosystem. With Qt you can develop programs for navigation units, medium-level phones, smartphones, desktops of all major and many minor OS-es (according to Trolls Qt powers even coffee machines, don't know if Nokia wants to enter this business but who knows )

That doesn't mean that there will be one program which will run on everything (although with Qt this is possible) but one IDE, one language, one documentation for whole company and its cooperators. The only other solution which can provide such flexibility is Java (and Qt has bindings for it - Jambi - so you can write Java programs with Qt).

For some reason Nokia choose Qt instead of Java. Why is matter for another (sub)thread but GTK definitely doesn't cut there.

Switch to Qt isn't matter of Maemo, it is a change of course for whole, multinational, multibillion company. We see only one facet of this decision but there is a bigger picture.

IMO information of this switch in Internet Tables (or whats its name today) is *good* news. Because it means Nokia see some future for this line of products. Letting it go with GTK would mean leaving it in dead waters of company environment for slow death.
 

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#50
Originally Posted by eiffel View Post
...
Maybe Symbian and Maemo are being somehow combined. Maybe there's some innovative migration path to bring the Symbian masses to Maemo.
...
Regards,
Roger
Just stumbled upon this. Symbian plans to use QT and "Direct UI" as the main UI(?) in release named Symbian^4 which by extrapolation is finished around end of 2010...

So Qt everywhere and all over.
 

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