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Rushmore |
2009-10-20
, 12:15
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Posts: 1,255 |
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Joined on Oct 2009
@ US
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#131
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Originally Posted by gerbick
Everyone should be nicer when the N900's show up. I hope.....
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2009-10-20
, 12:23
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Posts: 1,255 |
Thanked: 393 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ US
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#132
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As far as Android, the key is actual app execution. Unless part of the framework (MP4 codec is example) the apps run through the byte code layer and this is resource intense. A fair analogy is Maemo equals Linux, but Android equals Linux with the apps running in Java.
Premise of both OS's is similar, but the actual execution could not be more different in regards to efficiency and available access to hardware resources.
Just try to make a video codec for Android and see how well it runs. Ask Coreplayer team about that.
Last edited by Rushmore; 2009-10-20 at 12:26.
Premise of both OS's is similar, but the actual execution could not be more different in regards to efficiency and available access to hardware resources.
Just try to make a video codec for Android and see how well it runs. Ask Coreplayer team about that.
Last edited by Rushmore; 2009-10-20 at 12:26.
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2009-10-20
, 13:16
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Posts: 1,589 |
Thanked: 720 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ Arlington (DFW), Texas
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#133
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Originally Posted by cb474
I agree, and they made a mistake trying to take Symbian down a tier with the N78's and N81's. Did alot to tarnish the Nseries brand, which was originally a premium brand. Cseries and Xseries will help that, hopefully, and maybe Maemo will hold more of the Nseries lineup in the future, or even have its own brand. Symbian^4 needs to hurry and get here, or they'll have some competitors right over its shoulder. I think they'll get there, but barely. Pretty risky moves by Nokia, but they think they can remain in the top two regardless, and I do too.
Nokia has been so ineffective at pulling it's N series devices out of the high end niche, I don't know if they'll pull it off, even if they have the conceptually more radical and innovative design.
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Maemo-Freak.com
"...and the Freaks shall inherit the Earth."
Maemo-Freak.com
"...and the Freaks shall inherit the Earth."
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2009-10-20
, 13:19
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Posts: 968 |
Thanked: 974 times |
Joined on Nov 2008
@ Ohio
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#134
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As I've read through the thread, the following thought occurs to me (and I'm sure I'll be harshly corrected, but anyway).
Isn't Maemo, from the typical end-user perspective becoming more "closed"? (not from a developer, or even advanced user, but an end user).
For example: In Diablo, I can download a deb file, click on it from the stock filemanager, and it will install for me. In Fremantle, this is no longer the case. I have to drop into CLI to install a deb. Certainly, for devs and advanced users this is fine. However, it is not something the average end user would attempt. This was done to "protect" the end user from installing potentially harmful (beta, buggy, whatever) software easily. This limits the available software to the end user, in effect "closing" off part of the openness.
(I do agree that this is a good thing for the platform, but it does "close" it a little bit).
What would it be considered if in Maemo 7, a user would have to go to CLI to install a non-approved repository? (this logically following from protecting the end user from installing "bad" software that could make the experience less than optimal)
Last edited by lemmyslender; 2009-10-20 at 13:21. Reason: typo
Isn't Maemo, from the typical end-user perspective becoming more "closed"? (not from a developer, or even advanced user, but an end user).
For example: In Diablo, I can download a deb file, click on it from the stock filemanager, and it will install for me. In Fremantle, this is no longer the case. I have to drop into CLI to install a deb. Certainly, for devs and advanced users this is fine. However, it is not something the average end user would attempt. This was done to "protect" the end user from installing potentially harmful (beta, buggy, whatever) software easily. This limits the available software to the end user, in effect "closing" off part of the openness.
(I do agree that this is a good thing for the platform, but it does "close" it a little bit).
What would it be considered if in Maemo 7, a user would have to go to CLI to install a non-approved repository? (this logically following from protecting the end user from installing "bad" software that could make the experience less than optimal)
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*Consumer*, not a developer! I apologize for any inconvenience.
My script to backup /home and /opt
Samsung Galaxy S Vibrant, Huawei S7, N900(retired), N800(retired)
*Consumer*, not a developer! I apologize for any inconvenience.
My script to backup /home and /opt
Samsung Galaxy S Vibrant, Huawei S7, N900(retired), N800(retired)
Last edited by lemmyslender; 2009-10-20 at 13:21. Reason: typo
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2009-10-20
, 13:32
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Posts: 1,255 |
Thanked: 393 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ US
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#135
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Originally Posted by lemmyslender
Fair view. My lame theory is that Nokia is setting up a secure network for closed app markets for carriers that may sell the phone. Tmo is a good example. This device has their 3G and Tmo is a big fan now of captive audience markets like Android. That being said, at least you can install an apk file straight to your device with Android (that is about all it has over Maemo 5).
As I've read through the thread, the following thought occurs to me (and I'm sure I'll be harshly corrected, but anyway).
Isn't Maemo, from the typical end-user perspective becoming more "closed"? (not from a developer, or even advanced user, but an end user).
For example: In Diablo, I can download a deb file, click on it from the stock filemanager, and it will install for me. In Fremantle, this is no longer the case. I have to drop into CLI to install a deb. Certainly, for devs and advanced users this is fine. However, it is not something the average end user would attempt. This was done to "protect" the end user from installing potentially harmful (beta, buggy, whatever) software easily. This limits the available software to the end user, in effect "closing" off part of the openness.
(I do agree that this is a good thing for the platform, but it does "close" it a little bit).
What would it be considered if in Maemo 7, a user would have to go to CLI to install a non-approved repository? (this logically following from protecting the end user from installing "bad" software that could make the experience less than optimal)
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2009-10-20
, 14:07
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#136
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Originally Posted by lemmyslender
What are end users doing downloading random .debs off the internet? I don't know any end users who would choose to do that unless out of necessity and that necessity has decreased to almost zero over the past year or so. Random .debs are no longer the default for distributing software, sticking your stuff in Extras where it belongs is. This is really a red herring.
Isn't Maemo, from the typical end-user perspective becoming more "closed"? (not from a developer, or even advanced user, but an end user).
For example: In Diablo, I can download a deb file, click on it from the stock filemanager, and it will install for me. In Fremantle, this is no longer the case. I have to drop into CLI to install a deb. Certainly, for devs and advanced users this is fine. However, it is not something the average end user would attempt. This was done to "protect" the end user from installing potentially harmful (beta, buggy, whatever) software easily. This limits the available software to the end user, in effect "closing" off part of the openness.
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Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
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2009-10-20
, 17:56
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Posts: 1,245 |
Thanked: 421 times |
Joined on Dec 2005
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#137
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Originally Posted by ewan
And how many manufacturers are building devices that run on Maemo? Maemo is awesome, but Nokia is the only manufacturer willing to gamble with it (and I respect them a great deal for that), and even then they're only gambling with one device at a time.
There's more to a system being open than simple visibility of the source code. The Android platform is designed to lock down the devices it runs on and prevent the user exercising their freedom to control their own device. The mere existence of the ADP1 as distinct from the G1 tells you how open Android is. There is no developer edition of Maemo because they're all open to development, or to anything else the user wants.
Tighter control (than Maemo, not than anything else) is precisely why Android is being leveraged in dozens of devices by half a dozen manufacturers and several carriers. Carriers especially have enjoyed extremely tight control over the devices that run on their networks.
The whole point of Android is to break down that system, but it can't happen overnight. So Android retains some amount of lockdown control (for now), but still, it's already making progress: when Verizon announced that VOIP software would be allowed to run on the Droid, AT&T announced the very next day that it would allow VOIP apps to run over 3g on the iPhone. One step closer to freer devices for everyone, not just Android users.
Coincidence? Google is using Android (in a Trojan horse style) to change the relationship between carriers, developers, and users - to take power away from the carriers, and to give that power back to developers and users. And they're doing it at a huge cost to themselves with just a weak, indirect, and highly-latent incentive: to get more mobile phones onto the internet.
Note: I have no connection with the Android team, so I don't speak for them or for Google, but these are the conclusions I've drawn from their public talks and from common sense.
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2009-10-20
, 18:02
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#138
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Originally Posted by gnuite
Maemo is not the long-term answer, Android is not the long-term answer (Java? No X? No real toolkits? Not happening) Mer is.
And how many manufacturers are building devices that run on Maemo? Maemo is awesome, but Nokia is the only manufacturer willing to gamble with it (and I respect them a great deal for that), and even then they're only gambling with one device at a time.
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Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
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2009-10-20
, 18:10
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Posts: 1,245 |
Thanked: 421 times |
Joined on Dec 2005
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#139
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Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
Mer has potential, for sure, perhaps more even than it has ambition. Will manufacturers or carriers latch on to that potential? Will end users? I hope so, but until Mer becomes a reality, Maemo and Android are the best alternatives, in my humble opinion.
Maemo is not the long-term answer, Android is not the long-term answer (Java? No X? No real toolkits? Not happening) Mer is.
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2009-10-20
, 18:17
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Posts: 968 |
Thanked: 974 times |
Joined on Nov 2008
@ Ohio
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#140
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Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
You don't know any windows end users? They'll install anything
What are end users doing downloading random .debs off the internet? I don't know any end users who would choose to do that unless out of necessity and that necessity has decreased to almost zero over the past year or so. Random .debs are no longer the default for distributing software, sticking your stuff in Extras where it belongs is. This is really a red herring.
they find on the web.As a former PalmTX end user, I could and did download software from a variety of sources. I know plenty of Widows end users who will install just about anything they find on the net.
If we're talking about end users that only install what is available by default on the phone, then iphone, android, Maemo are all about the same to the end user. They have an app store/default extras repository to install "approved" apps from.
If we're talking about an end user that might actually hit google and search for an app:
Iphone: can't install w/o jailbreak
Android: Can install file found
Diable: Can install file found by clicking
Fremantle: Need CLI to install
Fremantle has added an extra hurdle to the end user to install random files, ie become more "closed".
For, the record, there are plenty of deb's that can be found on the net and installed on Diablo. Many right here in our own forums. I have several pieces of software that I installed from debs not found in Extras or other repositories. Perhaps not the best idea, but it was just a click or two away to do it. Even if you don't personally install anything not found in a repository, there are plently of things out there, even now.
That option is slowly being closed off, with the push to only install from Extras, resulting in a slightly more closed ecosystem.
__________________
*Consumer*, not a developer! I apologize for any inconvenience.
My script to backup /home and /opt
Samsung Galaxy S Vibrant, Huawei S7, N900(retired), N800(retired)
*Consumer*, not a developer! I apologize for any inconvenience.
My script to backup /home and /opt
Samsung Galaxy S Vibrant, Huawei S7, N900(retired), N800(retired)
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| Tags |
| comparison, competition, droid, fight, milestone, motorola droid, motorola milestone, n900, nokia n900 |
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