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chenliangchen's Avatar
Posts: 1,364 | Thanked: 7,585 times | Joined on Dec 2008 @ Shanghai / London
#761
Would love to hear some community opinion before we make the decision:

How do you think with the boarder-less screen? Like the latest Samsung or iPhone 10 etc... Like the majority touch surface is the screen (on top of a keyboard, of course)

I personally against it for 2 reasons: 1. Vulnerable to a drop. You are guaranteed to break something on a drop to the ground... 2. Might make edge swipe more difficult. I'm not sure on this point as I never tried swipe OS on such screen, but a little bit of bezel will make the experience better IMHO

But for opinion supporting it is quite simple, a smaller physical size while maintaining the same screen size, i.e 5.5 inch in a 5.2 inch body, and make it easier for gestures...

What's our thoughts?

Last edited by chenliangchen; 2018-02-27 at 22:48.
 

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#762
I'd keep a small bezel at least, for the reasons you have suggested. The extra few millimeters aren't a problem IMO, especially if they are used to put a nice big battery inside!
 

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#763
Originally Posted by Feathers McGraw View Post
I'd keep a small bezel at least, for the reasons you have suggested. The extra few millimeters aren't a problem IMO, especially if they are used to put a nice big battery inside!
I share the same point of view. It doesn't seem to me that no bezel has any big advantage over "pretty small" bezel except the WOW so cool effect. But Livermorium will have the WOW effect anyways, namely the QWERTY ;-)
 

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#764
I'm one of those who would go for a smaller device if it was realistic (but I understand it is not at this stage), but in fact I'm not too concerned about width so I would keep a small bezel as well, for the same reasons. Now, if the top and bottom bezels can stay small to control the total length of the phone, then even a 5.5" screen might fit reasonably well in a pocket, and the keyboard would be easier to use with thumbs.

In any case, weren't you initially planning on using a slightly curved screen (2.5D) to facilitate swipes?

What you came up with in the mockup pics below looked like a perfect balance to me (although I doubt the actual device can be this thin) :


Last edited by Kabouik; 2018-02-28 at 02:44.
 

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#765
I see it like Kabouik.
 

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#766
well.....
-make it with sailfis in mind
-keep 3.5mm jack
-no stupid notch

and make it with screws so that we can replace broken screen and secure enough of them for spares. Problem solved.
In 20+ years of using mobile anything I think that I dropped my anything maybe 5 times so I'm not worried much about dropping. But the problem with bezelles phones is that they often react on the edges when I don't want them. I still have nightmares because of samung edge variants of company phones. Or stupid edge sense on wifes U11.
 

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#767
Hi Chen !
Originally Posted by chenliangchen View Post
How do you think with the boarder-less screen?
[...] 2. Might make edge swipe more difficult. I'm not sure on this point as I never tried swipe OS on such screen, but a little bit of bezel will make the experience better IMHO
I never tried borderless screen, but can give you another feedback, if it can broaden the question.

I installed this weekend the community port of Sailfish on my PhotonQ (with hardware keyboard). It works great, but I had the opposite problem: the casing around the screen goes a slight bit above it, making edge swipes a pain as the casing prevents the finger to touch right on the edge of the screen.

Doing so, I compared it with the Jolla 1 (and my previous N8), and found 2 things to take into account in regards of edges: comfort to hold, and edge swipes:
* N8 was great to hold, as it is thick enough, and the edge shape is mostly round. (The same shape was later used on N9 with curved screen to use edge swipes, and your concept looks a lot like it)
* Jolla 1 is not so great to hold due to the edge being in 2 parts (the TOH concept with one half flat, and the other half rounded), but on edge around the screen is a bit rounded to allow easily reaching the edges with the thumb. I never had trouble activating it.
* PhotonQ is in the middle regarding the comfort to hold, as it shape is continuous, but still more angular than the N8, and a said above, the casing makes it a difficult to kick edge swipes (top and bottom swipes are ok).

About borders, older phone had really huge border that should be possible to reduce without introducing problems regarding edge swipes, but I would not go above the point where the digitizer reach a zone where you hand is naturally resting while you hold the phone (firmly, like while walking). That may be only 1 or 2 mm from the outer dimension probably, not more, but depending on the shape of the phone (edges roundness, thickness, width), the resting position may change a bit. I will try tommorow to borrow a friend's S8 to make a few tests and see how the edge is actually accessible to confirm this though.
If it is easier to get border-less screens (as it is the new trend), then there may be some software mitigation possible to handle it (increase the range for edge swipe, disable a few pixels on the sides, palm filter like on touchpads)... ?

Finally, with a hardware keyboard, screen real estate is a little bit less important than without, as you don't cut the screen in half to put a virtual keyboard in it for most things. Some will still want bigger screens for tasks done without the hardware keyboard, like using it vertically, watching video or reading website.
 

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#768
Originally Posted by kinggo View Post
......
and make it with screws so that we can replace broken screen and secure enough of them for spares. Problem solved. ......
If you had a chance to play the Keyboard Mod or own one, you will probably notice there isn't a single piece of glue in it. Not at all. We have probably 12-13 major parts but only with a few screws, and it's contains moving parts. And (in theory, not warranty) is user replaceable. It won't change for this project as well.
 

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#769
Originally Posted by chenliangchen View Post
Would love to hear some community opinion before we make the decision:

How do you think with the boarder-less screen? Like the latest Samsung or iPhone 10 etc... Like the majority touch surface is the screen (on top of a keyboard, of course)
If that means a larger screen in a smaller space, I'm for it.

If it means that I'll have to suffer due to a clumsy execution, add a slim bezel back. I'd rather have access to all of the gestures without having to stretch my reach or be careful and precise.

I personally against it for 2 reasons: 1. Vulnerable to a drop. You are guaranteed to break something on a drop to the ground... 2. Might make edge swipe more difficult. I'm not sure on this point as I never tried swipe OS on such screen, but a little bit of bezel will make the experience better IMHO
I'm not clumsy, so the drop is not my concern. But if it has a keyboard, the swipe from the bottom is nigh impossible.
__________________
Tschüß
 

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#770
Originally Posted by chenliangchen View Post
If you had a chance to play the Keyboard Mod or own one, you will probably notice there isn't a single piece of glue in it. Not at all. We have probably 12-13 major parts but only with a few screws, and it's contains moving parts. And (in theory, not warranty) is user replaceable. It won't change for this project as well.
No, I didn't. I do use motorola now since J1 screen half died but it's an old x play. Z series is not exactly popular here in is quite expensive, my operator still asks ~500€ for first Z And since you anounced this project I was very pleased with that mockup and (now seem to be gone) sailfish so I'll rather give you that money at some point. I do have to say that ASOP without all that OEM bloatware and google is not that bad and from usefull app POV better than sailfish. But the keyboard alone won't make AOSP some 600€ better than it is.
If I do get some good deal for Z then maybe I'll get the mod also but ATM I'm still hoping for yours all in one
 

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