English is not my first language, so i guess the difference between "down payment" and "crowdfunding" was not clear to me. But no matter how you call it, paying for something that doesn't exist (yet) has always the character of an investment.

The way the question is formulated: "pay the remaining cost, no matter what" , it could also mean pay 2k or even more for the Neo900. But i guess that's not what you meant, so i voted with yes now.

Actually, it is exactly what I meant. Since no one has committed to any specific release date or final price, it can balloon to literally anything. It can easily take decades and cost tens of thousands. Remember the price has doubled already and without warning.

yup...
In fact ...lets summarize all the points.

(I don't think I have missed any..
If any can think of any more...
mention them please..
regardless of "for" or "against" ...and I will add them..)


1- refundable preorder to non-refundable quasi-donation

1a- and yes the price ballooned to double...expect it to not stop there due to ..

1b- the needed "donating individuals" to begin it being viable to produce were initially stated at around ~800. the last known figure which is dated now was current "donating individuals" standing... (which is severely dated was) ~350 "donating individuals".
Naturally include since that time some new investors who have joined that preorder list.
And a greater number who are balking at further investment or have abandoned the hope of any end product and moved on.
(valid reasons being 2, 2a, 2b, 2c, 3, 3a, 3b, 3c, and 3d )

1c- the schematics and other aspects perhaps may be transparent as the claim goes...but the finances are not. There is no transparency or and seemingly no accountability to investors..erm.."donating individuals" in this regard. I have no idea anymore than the next person here ..how much is left of our "donations" ..if anything...

2- timeline is SO grossly overdue already, decade or decades ...is not inconceivable.

2a- overdue timeline also means an already outdated end product (also refer to 3 )

2b- overdue timeline also means necessary components become obsolete and so new components must be sourced, which then must be tested for compatibility and so THAT circle spins round ..unto itself.

2c- due just to the aforementioned above 2a, 2b, alone ... numbers of previous investors will not invest further. the actual number is not relevant.
there WILL be people who have had enough.

3- due to the passage of time...
it shortly will not be the "special" and "unique" device it could once have been....had it been released timely. The window of time for the neo to take advantage of...has closed.

3a- Chen's work shortly to finish to what end...has yet to be seen...but qwerty keyboard options are coming shortly...

3b- Librem 5 will have ..I believe the same ability in privacy and kill functions for a secure device. so the neo's stated unique advantage is shortly to be deployed to customers in January.
perhaps the Librem 5 will have parts that are closed (I am not certain on this one...But I doubt that they would go to so much trouble in device security and not deal with that issue) ...whereas the unmade neo at this point is stating it will not have any compromising bits...
(Personally I have already thrown $530 CDN ...away ...on the neo...whereas I COULD ACTUALLY PREORDER AND GET a Librem 5 in January with specs that dwarf the neo ...for another $70
The neo is guesstimated at what again? Someone else say that figure....so it sinks in and they hear it with their own ears...from their own mouth...
and the neo isn't finished with that guesstimate ...
it has no ceiling in it's potential end cost .)

3c- advancements made by PM and UT are continuing ...inevitably they will be primetime and on devices manufactured and shipped long before the neo is HALF finished.

3d- Between Sailfish, PM, and UT working toward running other os's and their apps... and between the Leste project working on modernizing the maemo os ...and moving toward the same goal of operating on other devices INCLUDING the n900 and possibly the n8x0 even...which have resistive displays...

all of the aforementioned...combined...
means that there is no "special" aspect that isn't available elsewhere ..shortly......at a much more sane price.



Considering all the above (so far) stated points of issue...
I think at this point the answer to "why people wish to support any further and HOPE to get an unobtainium coated neo900 ?"
is an overwhelmingly simple matter,
of a differentiation between those who have at least a minimal grasp of reality,
and those who have a disassociation and disconnect with it.

Well, then 12 people are insane and i'm stupid.

That's too harsh. I would use the phrase, "overly optimistic". The 12 (actually, now 13) just do not believe it would ever come to that.

As I admitted before, the poll has many holes in it and anyone can create a better one. For example, " how much longer are you willing to wait" or "how much more are you willing to pay", both with 10 or more options. But the best approach and the only one with any real significance would be if the Neo team asked that.

Marshall Banana sir....
(mhmhmhmahahaha....sorry...)
a disassociation and disconnect from reality does not infer either insanity or stupidity.
Hardly.
That would mean that as much as the twelve and yourself you voted yes so far ...I and virtually everyone who invested our money in this Neverending Story ...are likewise also insane and stupid.

To illustrate...
The project went from refundable preorders to non refundable donations...
By your rhetoric ...I and everyone else who did not get their money refunded during that changeover are by definition ... insane and stupid to have stuck it out past that pivotal moment.
The project then declared that end device cost doubled...
By the same rhetoric ...I and everyone else who still stuck it out and supported the project out of loyalty and belief ...are by the same definition insane and stupid .

No...no one is insane or stupid here..

It is an incremental issue...really...
as the temperature increases, it is about how much heat each frog can take, before jumping out of this pot of boiling water.

(the harsh contrasting reality of course is that real frogs do not jump out of an incrementally hotter and hotter pot of water... luckily people can...)

No one here is insane or stupid ...

I am not as sure as you about this, it seems. Myself included in that sentiment, by the way.

I do think that the Neo-team did there best and tried to build something that most of us have been waiting for.

I would not wait for the delivery boy or do extra payments for the device. The Neo900 OS is perfect but the hardware is out of date by now.

People are happy there dumb phone's nowdays. Having pre-installed **** on a new smartphone is cool or standard nowdays.

An alien visitor would provide us a smartphone.

I completely agree with every word you've said jelly.

and don't mention aliens too loudly...
or Dave will hear...and we will never hear the end of it.


(hmmm... is you're avatar a pic of a ufo ...jelly? when did you change to that? I don't remember you having that avatar? ...you don't know something about alien smartphones invading Earth do you?)

Come on, endso, you can do better. Jellyroll's first language isn't English, what's your excuse?