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Jordi's Avatar
Posts: 365 | Thanked: 541 times | Joined on Jun 2011 @ Geneva - CH
#21
Yes, and the main difficulty will be the OS. See the time spent by Jolla developing Sailfish.
 

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#22
Lots of nice ideas. Is that a 16/10 screen? I like it too. The software compatibility is of course a great pro for this phone, with full-fledged distributions, and I particularly like the comparison table with iOS and Android. They seem to take inspiration from the Neo900 with the hardware kill switches.

However the delivery date is far in everyone's mind, I'm afraid this will impair the funding and reduce the number of backers (although it's understandable that they need time). Hope they will succeed as well.

Last edited by Kabouik; 2017-08-24 at 19:24.
 

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#23
Originally Posted by Jordi View Post
Yes, and the main difficulty will be the OS. See the time spent by Jolla developing Sailfish.
Any info on mobile profile of PureOS ?
https://pureos.net/

https://liliputing.com/2017/08/puris...sell-599.html#
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#24
Originally Posted by Jordi View Post
Yes, and the main difficulty will be the OS. See the time spent by Jolla developing Sailfish.
Of course. It is much different, though. They will use the regular Linux kernel and GNU software stack. It would be a VERY significant and important achievement if they succeeded. It would be a major breakthrough if normal Linux distributions could run on phone hardware. It could be compared to the openness of Raspberry Pie. Sailfish has come far, but not nearly enough. They are still 100% dependent on Android kernel and device drivers.

<rant>The Android kernel and software stack is a nasty fork in the free software world of Linux that hardly gives anything back. Think about it. As soon as hardware vendors create drivers (that are only compatible with Android) for new devices they forget about it and begin creating the next new device. No drivers and hardly any software is upstreamed. People are tinkering with Android devices and flashing "rooted" images and think that they achieve something with that. Nothing. No sharing, no upstreaming, no caring for the wider software community. All in vain and wasted time. It is a shame and disgrace in the light of the Linux kernel history and achievements of Linux desktop distribution software. Probably why many phone makers hardly dare to mention that they are using the Linux kernel. I guess they are ashamed.</rant>

Last edited by jukk; 2017-08-24 at 19:43.
 

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Community Council | Posts: 4,074 | Thanked: 9,752 times | Joined on May 2012 @ Southerrn Finland
#25
Originally Posted by jukk View Post
Sailfish has come far, but not nearly enough. They are still 100% dependent on Android kernel and device drivers.
untrue.

SFOS has no dependencies to Android and can run well on any HW that you can get Mer running on. Think about it a while; there are SFOS implementations running on non-android devices, for example RaspberryPI and N9(50)
Also the original Jolla sbj1 was first planned to run on NovaThor SoC requiring no android-funny-business and only had to be changed when STE pulled the plug on the chipset...

The reason most SFOS ports rely on libhybris is because that's all that is available for most phone hardware.
If some vendor made a non-android device platform it'd be no-brainer to port SFOS for it. Without a trace of android.
 

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Posts: 39 | Thanked: 87 times | Joined on Aug 2014 @ England, UK
#26
That crowdfunding campaign reeks of amateur marketing techniques that backfire on themselves, it doesn't give readers the confidence that Purism can deliver on their promises, and therefore I don't believe they are going to achieve their goal.
 

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#27
Originally Posted by juiceme View Post
untrue.

SFOS has no dependencies to Android and can run well on any HW that you can get Mer running on. Think about it a while; there are SFOS implementations running on non-android devices, for example RaspberryPI and N9(50)
Also the original Jolla sbj1 was first planned to run on NovaThor SoC requiring no android-funny-business and only had to be changed when STE pulled the plug on the chipset...

The reason most SFOS ports rely on libhybris is because that's all that is available for most phone hardware.
If some vendor made a non-android device platform it'd be no-brainer to port SFOS for it. Without a trace of android.

I agree, mostly what I meant too. Device drivers is the big problem. But the fact is that 100% of Jolla devices so far run Android kernel and libhybris. Even the tablet that is Intel x86 hardware (I have a Jolla tablet, too)! Once drivers are overcome, any FLOSS distro could run on the device. For sure GUI applications need some tweaking for phone use and touch interface. Sailfish is also partly closed source at GUI level.
 

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#28
Originally Posted by marmistrz View Post
Are they going to use Android drivers via libhybris or native drivers? Both options have their pros & cons.
According to their latest information :
- nope, no closed-source binary drivers.
- 100% opensource drivers.

So neither the android drivers+libhybris, nor the manufacturer's native driver (if such exist - most ARM chipset manufecturer only provider android), but vanilla upstream linux kernel and upstream Gallium3D.

That's why they are currently working with Freescale i.MX 6, and considering eventually the i.MX 8 :
apparently the i.MX 6's GPU is well supported by the etna_viv driver.
 

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#29
Originally Posted by jukk View Post
I agree, mostly what I meant too. Device drivers is the big problem. But the fact is that 100% of Jolla devices so far run Android kernel and libhybris. Even the tablet that is Intel x86 hardware (I have a Jolla tablet, too)!
Yes but your post made it sound like that'd be Jolla's fault and it bloody isn't; it is totally out of their hands, you just cannot get a mobile reference platform without android because such things don't exist!


Originally Posted by jukk View Post
Once drivers are overcome, any FLOSS distro could run on the device.
Yes but how are you going to achieve that, which mobile vendor is large enough that it has any leverage to force a SoC vendor to opensource it's drivers?? And if such a company existed, what could it gain from it, why would it do so??

It's just not going to happen, period.


Originally Posted by jukk View Post
For sure GUI applications need some tweaking for phone use and touch interface. Sailfish is also partly closed source at GUI level.
The parts that are closed in SFOS don't matter as long as Jolla allows use of the relevent libraries, just like it does for community ports currently.
And if you cannot live with that there is always Nemo; when not as polished as SFOS it does the job.
 

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#30
Originally Posted by r0kk3rz View Post
SailfishOS isn't free enough for them, so I doubt they will choose that.

Plasma Mobile is close enough to a Sailfish stack anyway but with a free UI, so perhaps that's what they will package into their own distro.
Perhaps MER is?
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