Active Topics

 



Notices


Poll: Would you wait for the Neo900 delivery and pay the ramaining cost, no matter what?
Poll Options
Would you wait for the Neo900 delivery and pay the ramaining cost, no matter what?

Reply
Thread Tools
pichlo's Avatar
Posts: 5,567 | Thanked: 17,350 times | Joined on Sep 2012 @ UK
#1
At least 5 years overdue, at least 100% over the original budget and at least 3mm thicker than the original specification are just three of a whole mountain of "at least"s. And there is still no sign of the light at the end of the tunnel. Any official updates from the development team have dried up ages ago.

Is there any point pretending the project is still alive and will at some point deliver? There was a discussion in the Neo900 announcement thread recently suggesting that the number of people still interested is dwindling. This poll is intended to put that assertion to the test. There are only two options, yes or no. The poll assumes that the respondent has preordered at least one Neo900 and still is/is not interested in the delivery. Please do not answer if you have not preordered as that would skew the results (which are probably skewed anyway as many people who have lost interest are probably no longer here and will not see it, but that is likely to skew the result in a positive way, towards "yes").

I cannot stop people posting general rants in this thread but that was by no stretch of imagination the intention. Please try to keep your emotions down.
__________________
In particle accelerators atoms are indeed not only touching each others. But banging together in a massive explosive orgasm.
-- nieldk in a TMO post

Last edited by pichlo; 2018-07-24 at 07:02. Reason: Highlighted important part for the likes of Dave999
 

The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to pichlo For This Useful Post:
peterleinchen's Avatar
Posts: 3,392 | Thanked: 6,451 times | Joined on Aug 2010 @ Ruhrgebiet, Germany
#2
Answered .
__________________
SIM-Switcher, automated SIM switching with a Double (Dual) SIM adapter
--
Thank you all for voting me into the Community Council 2014-2016!

Please consider your membership / supporting Maemo e.V. and help to spread this by following/copying this link to your TMO signature:
[MC eV] Maemo Community eV membership application, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94257

editsignature, http://talk.maemo.org/profile.php?do=editsignature
 

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to peterleinchen For This Useful Post:
Posts: 940 | Thanked: 1,726 times | Joined on Jul 2010 @ Brittany, France
#3
Although I understand the curiosity and motivation to poll the community (or, as you mentioned, a biased part of the initial user base), I don't think it can do any good to the project. If it were that the project still had chances to succeed eventually, at a high price per unit, longer delay, all the poll is going to bring is yet another way to alter the motivation and commitment of its maintainers, and drag down the interest of the backers who still trust in the project.

We know that there will be only one valid answer to the poll: less people are interested today than initially. There won't be any relevant way discuss the total votes and the ratio because the numbers will inherently be biased to an unknown extent due to (1) eroded user base and community, (2) lack of knowledge about the project progress, remaining blockers and final price, and (3) unknown proportion of backers among the TMO active members. Since we can't really crunch any numbers but already know what the sign of the change likely is, a decrease in the number of confirmed backers, potentially - or not - underestimated by the poll, there is no real benefit in even trying to quantify. It will bring a lot of drama as to whether it is worth continuing or not, and will undoubtedly have a snowball effect when we realize we get 20 total votes, or by convincing those that still wanted to pay that the device will be obsolete or that the final cost will inevitably increase beyond reason because many already left the boat, making it even more pricey and difficult to finish. We will get a vicious circle just by asking a question that brings no new answer.

If Joerg and the team think the project can still be achieved (because they know better what is left to do, how much resources are left, how much is needed, whether the final price for an eroded list of clients would still make sense), then I don't think we, as a community who was either interested once or is still interested, should use more energy to hinder* the project than support it or just let it be. Of course, some will think that they have lost trust from the backers and that a claim that it can still be achieved would not be convincing enough, but their work so far, even if interrupted, could still bring something valuable to the mobile world.

* Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that you are purposely compromising the project Pichlo, the project didn't need anyone to be risky in the first place and it has always been a rocky road. However, all five or six people active on the Neo900 topic on TMO are doing with this poll or the Neo900 thread is ranting that they don't believe in the project anymore. It may be very justified, but in the end, no one will be refunded and no one will be forced to pay the other half, so it's a lose-lose situation if we help an already fragile project stalling. And maybe the project will stall anyway if too few want to commit to a finished device at a high cost, but Joerg and his team will still have achieved some work for the future, a proof of concept, demonstration that there was demand with backers, and they have communicated in meetings and congresses with peers the benefits of such a device. At a significant cost, sure, but the cost will remain the same whether our bitterness helps dragging the project down or not, so I'd rather focus of my last bits of enthusiasm and hope the project can still be completed and make a good use of our initial investment.

I won't say that I am not skeptical about the odds that the Neo900 will ship before I die of old age, but I know that my initial investment is either lost or dependent on the completion of the project, so I tend to prefer when the Neo900 project stays away from shitstorms and vicious circles, even if I wish there was just more communication to limit that. The project may have well deserved the critics at times, but this is not going to bring anything good to the team, the backers, the remotely interested people that just keep an eye on how the secure-hwkb-stylus-opensource device is doing, or my very selfish investment.

I want a device that respects privacy, fits in a pocket, is truly 100% open and come with a keyboard and a stylus, so I'm grateful they even considered that relevant and worked on it for years. I might have lost my bet, but not yet, so I am not going to discourage all involved parties by telling the team and the other backers that only a fraction of the initial backers still think that way. We all know it, and the poll will just add numbers that can hardly be discussed.

Last edited by Kabouik; 2018-07-24 at 00:31.
 

The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Kabouik For This Useful Post:
Dave999's Avatar
Posts: 6,818 | Thanked: 8,307 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
#4
not sure what we are trying to do here but it’s always fun with a vote. So...

I vote: No. simply bebouse I didn’t do the down payment but also since I would never go all in on a no matter what solution since I want to get what I’m paying for and billions of things can happen along the way.
__________________
Do something for the climate today! Anything!

I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...I'm also supporting Apple 2016 or until Jolla fully refund or ship the jPad to all backers and supports!

"waited over a year for no tablet – and then the same again for potential refund? inspires confidence!"
 

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dave999 For This Useful Post:
gerbick's Avatar
Posts: 6,645 | Thanked: 14,894 times | Joined on Jul 2007 @ undecided.
#5
Unfortunately I cannot list myself amongst those that are still interested in the Neo900. I will continue to wish them luck on their endeavors and absolutely no ill will.
__________________
gerbick | Jolla Tablet | iPhone X [ 256GB iOS 12.1 Beta ] | iPad Pro [ 256GB iOS 12.1 Beta ]
Former Maemo Council Member - 2015
 

The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to gerbick For This Useful Post:
peterleinchen's Avatar
Posts: 3,392 | Thanked: 6,451 times | Joined on Aug 2010 @ Ruhrgebiet, Germany
#6
Originally Posted by Dave999 View Post
not sure what we are trying to do here but it’s always fun with a vote. So...
Ah, Dave is here. He smells the refund.... But wait, this thread here did not mention anything about his most beloved word.

As well as pichlo explicitly mentioned that only peepz should vote who already pre-ordered a Neo900 to not derail the vote:
Originally Posted by Dave999
I vote: No. simply bebouse I didn’t do the down payment but also since I would never go all in on a no matter what solution since I want to get what I’m paying for and billions of things can happen along the way.
__________________
SIM-Switcher, automated SIM switching with a Double (Dual) SIM adapter
--
Thank you all for voting me into the Community Council 2014-2016!

Please consider your membership / supporting Maemo e.V. and help to spread this by following/copying this link to your TMO signature:
[MC eV] Maemo Community eV membership application, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94257

editsignature, http://talk.maemo.org/profile.php?do=editsignature
 

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to peterleinchen For This Useful Post:
peterleinchen's Avatar
Posts: 3,392 | Thanked: 6,451 times | Joined on Aug 2010 @ Ruhrgebiet, Germany
#7
Originally Posted by kabouik
...

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date..._comica_62.jpg

This sounds to me a bit like (in Germany we say) Vogel-Strauß-Taktik or Vogel-Strauß-Politik.
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopf...n_Sand_stecken

There is absolutely no bad will or harm from pichlo meant.
But ... and now one could write lots of rants/reasons/reality ... I will only mention feasability.
If half or just a quarter is not interested the whole project is financially 'endangered'. Or are you willing to pay the double of the already high 'end-price' of 1000¿

(I would even not be sure if I were interested if shipping date would be tomorrow and price as estimated)

Also from my side no bad will and good speed for the project ...
__________________
SIM-Switcher, automated SIM switching with a Double (Dual) SIM adapter
--
Thank you all for voting me into the Community Council 2014-2016!

Please consider your membership / supporting Maemo e.V. and help to spread this by following/copying this link to your TMO signature:
[MC eV] Maemo Community eV membership application, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94257

editsignature, http://talk.maemo.org/profile.php?do=editsignature
 

The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to peterleinchen For This Useful Post:
Posts: 1,899 | Thanked: 2,978 times | Joined on Jun 2010 @ N900: Battery low. N950: torx 4 re-used once and fine; SIM port torn apart
#8
I voted "Yes". Unfortunately, I cannot vote more than once - and I pre-ordered 7 devices. And discounting Dave's "No" vote as non-valid, it looks like 9 Yes, 6 No.

Thank you. Best wishes.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Per aspera ad astra...
 

The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Wikiwide For This Useful Post:
Dave999's Avatar
Posts: 6,818 | Thanked: 8,307 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
#9
Originally Posted by peterleinchen View Post
Ah, Dave is here. He smells the refund.... But wait, this thread here did not mention anything about his most beloved word.
I came for the poll. Not the refund. I think it’s more you and others that want me to talk about refunds given the conversations

Originally Posted by peterleinchen View Post
As well as pichlo explicitly mentioned that only peepz should vote who already pre-ordered a Neo900 to not derail the vote:
Sorry. I missed that note. On the other hand it should have bin more highlighted if that was important.

Thirdly. Everyone can go all in, down payment or not.
__________________
Do something for the climate today! Anything!

I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...I'm also supporting Apple 2016 or until Jolla fully refund or ship the jPad to all backers and supports!

"waited over a year for no tablet – and then the same again for potential refund? inspires confidence!"
 

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dave999 For This Useful Post:
pichlo's Avatar
Posts: 5,567 | Thanked: 17,350 times | Joined on Sep 2012 @ UK
#10
Originally Posted by Dave999 View Post
Sorry. I missed that note.
Translated: "I did not bother reading. I saw a thread title and a poll and my eyes lit up with dollar signs like in cartoons."

On the other hand it should have bin more highlighted if that was important.
I have highlighted it now. Hopefully even good ole Davey cannot miss it now.
__________________
In particle accelerators atoms are indeed not only touching each others. But banging together in a massive explosive orgasm.
-- nieldk in a TMO post
 

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to pichlo For This Useful Post:
Reply

Thread Tools

 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 23:42.