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2012-07-03
, 19:53
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#82
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@gerbick
I now exactly what you mean about NOKIA dropping the ball when it came to Maemo, so much potential squandered only to be resurrected and squandered again.
I never really understood why Symbian didn't get Hildon either, I guess there was a reason but imo it's a shame NOKIA didn't make it happen.
Don't get me wrong I'm not suggesting for a minute that NOKIA isn't guilty of a few howlers but I haven't seen anyone point to some concrete evidence that suggests Symbian sales were just about to collapse without Elop's intervention.
I do know if I were the head buyer at Vodafone or O2 on Feb 11 2011 I would have immediately phoned my contact at NOKIA and told them they could stick any open orders for Symbian phones right where the sun doesn't shine.
I now exactly what you mean about NOKIA dropping the ball when it came to Maemo, so much potential squandered only to be resurrected and squandered again.
I never really understood why Symbian didn't get Hildon either, I guess there was a reason but imo it's a shame NOKIA didn't make it happen.
Don't get me wrong I'm not suggesting for a minute that NOKIA isn't guilty of a few howlers but I haven't seen anyone point to some concrete evidence that suggests Symbian sales were just about to collapse without Elop's intervention.
I do know if I were the head buyer at Vodafone or O2 on Feb 11 2011 I would have immediately phoned my contact at NOKIA and told them they could stick any open orders for Symbian phones right where the sun doesn't shine.
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2012-07-03
, 20:30
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Posts: 322 |
Thanked: 218 times |
Joined on Feb 2012
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#83
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Originally Posted by switch-hitter
I don't know if people forget way too fast, but only two years ago there were discussions about Nokia constantly being unable to execute - anything really. Their store was a mess, the Nokia PC applications for the store and music was a complete mess (and still is), several different sync programs, the N8 that never came, Symbia^3 that never came, etc etc. and last, but not least, the N9 that never came, and when it finally came, Elop has just entered the scene and axed it for all practical intents.
@gerbick
I now exactly what you mean about NOKIA dropping the ball when it came to Maemo, so much potential squandered only to be resurrected and squandered again.
I never really understood why Symbian didn't get Hildon either, I guess there was a reason but imo it's a shame NOKIA didn't make it happen.
Don't get me wrong I'm not suggesting for a minute that NOKIA isn't guilty of a few howlers but I haven't seen anyone point to some concrete evidence that suggests Symbian sales were just about to collapse without Elop's intervention.
I do know if I were the head buyer at Vodafone or O2 on Feb 11 2011 I would have immediately phoned my contact at NOKIA and told them they could stick any open orders for Symbian phones right where the sun doesn't shine.
For a brief, but very accurate analysis of what went wrong (and right) read this:
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/featu...d_right_an.php
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2012-07-03
, 20:58
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Joined on Feb 2010
@ Gothenburg in Sweden
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#84
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Originally Posted by gerbick
Dont know much bout RIM but BB10 and qt integrating looks nice until latest rumor about microsoft buys RIM. And also latest annoncement from nokia may very well have hurted RIM in Qt maybe one of the reason why BB10 comming until q1 2013 if it even will be released
Not WP7? At this rate, the hurt for Nokia needs to stop. It hasn't.
RIM owns QNX. I'd say they actually might have the upper hand as well as a true, in-house Plan B. And they're well known in the enterprise circles as well as have a messenger service that people actually like and use.
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2012-07-03
, 21:42
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Posts: 151 |
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Joined on Oct 2009
@ SF Bay Area
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#85
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Originally Posted by switch-hitter
I owned the 7710. When I subsequently bought the 770, my first IT, I couldn't believe the family resemblance between the two. Series 90 for the 7710 was a very clean full touch (including stylus) interface.
I never really understood why Symbian didn't get Hildon either, I guess there was a reason but imo it's a shame NOKIA didn't make it happen.
Of course, shortly after releasing the phone, Nokia announced the 7710 was the first and last of the Series 90. They've been doing this "kill it before it has a chance to be successful" thing for a while.
The 770, the N800, the N900 (all of which I've owned) seemed to be worked on by "off in a corner" teams - without the full backing of the company.
The N9 is worse. The company seems to have gone out of its way to prevent success.
A company of great people (well, once it was) with great ideas (all those concept phones) some great products and surprisingly inept management.
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2012-07-03
, 21:49
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#86
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Originally Posted by kjmackey
That's why I am having a problem showing too much remorse.
A company of great people (well, once it was) with great ideas (all those concept phones) some great products and surprisingly inept management.
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2012-07-03
, 22:12
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Posts: 738 |
Thanked: 983 times |
Joined on Apr 2010
@ London
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#87
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Originally Posted by gerbick
Next time can you do that before the wall of text?
That's my take. I'm quite sure this wall of text will be greeted with tl;dr so allow me to summarize:
Originally Posted by kjmackey
truth spoken, really
The 770, the N800, the N900 (all of which I've owned) seemed to be worked on by "off in a corner" teams - without the full backing of the company.
The N9 is worse. The company seems to have gone out of its way to prevent success.
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2012-07-03
, 22:17
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#88
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Originally Posted by gerbick
I'm totally playing devil's advocate here...
The N97. It was the first response post iPhone release and it was rather weak. Comes with Music, bringing back NGage only to kill it again, then re-marketing things as Ovi when the rest of the world thought it an odd word - looks like ovary thus eggs, or the middle of bovine, thus cow in English, but made perfect sense if you were Finnish or willing to reason why it was named Ovi - and to be honest those responses were seen by many (myself included) as clutching at straws.
Now, the "decline" from 2007 and so forth is centered around the so-called arena of smartphones that had music, video and games as well as PIM type applications for your smartphone. Ovi was actually bigger than Android's market in many respects (transactions, apps, developers) for a while... but their offerings seem to not have 3rd party support for why we're here - Maemo.
Maemo was billed as their top level OS, yet the N900 was a meager seller compared to the N95 variations (read: speculation since the N95's numbers were actually known, but not the N900) and then the N9 managed to inherit a new CEO that marketed and sold it in Kazakhstan and not many other "first world" areas directly at the same time as the Nokia distribution channels were being dismantled.
But this all came after only two Nokia stores were opened in the US, while Apple had laid claim that most of the US population was within 100 miles of an Apple Store via strategic placement. This is after placement of iTunes, procurement of media and all from a company headed by a guy that's never done one cellphone in his life.
Nokia should have been ahead of the game there. But this is the North American market. Let's look to Europe. The issues with the initial N95 running out of memory carried over to the later variants, which was met with an still overpriced N97 that basically was panned as a mediocre phone. That was the first iPhone response from Nokia (reminder).
Nokia then comes out with the N8, taking almost 2 years to get Symbian to the point it was touch screen friendly in a way that most modern phones would be - Belle if it came out in 2008 would have killed, but it came out in 2011 a bit late imho - and Nokia just seemed like that leviathan that couldn't get things together. Meanwhile, Maemo was started and stopped 5 times, MeeGo came out and wasn't pushed by even Intel into the handset area with Nokia being the only handset manufacturer to truly build something - LG cancelled out - and then the N9 came out.
Truly a remarkable phone, but it could now be seen as too little, too late because Elop was in place, the foibles of the many restarts of Maemo had taken their toll and our favorite mobile OS was now an esoteric choice second to Android and iOS. All of the above were in motion since 2006 really (earlier if you include the 770) and not handled well.
That's my take. I'm quite sure this wall of text will be greeted with tl;dr so allow me to summarize: Nokia wasted their lead in tablets as well as delivering content to smartphones, didn't quickly respond to the iPhone (scoffed it off) and now are paying for those decisions under OPK by opening the door for somebody like Elop to walk in.
They should have thought things through a bit better and didn't. Sadly, they even had the tools to make things better.
I completely agree with your assessment, but don't understand why then you say that NOKIA had options other than android or windows? Your thesis here is completely in tune what I am saying, and that is that so called execution, is really lack of software optimization and lack of caring about what customers want. This is exactly why they ditched their own engineers in favor of software centric windows. Nokia just can't finish what they start. They lack that hard earned and hard fought perfect finish. Perhaps they were visionaries with Maemo, but they can't finish their visions.
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2012-07-03
, 23:03
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Joined on Jul 2011
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#89
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Originally Posted by specc
And yet, despite all that, the sales of Symbian phones kept increasing. Imagine the potential if they'd put some of those things right.
I don't know if people forget way too fast, but only two years ago there were discussions about Nokia constantly being unable to execute - anything really. Their store was a mess, the Nokia PC applications for the store and music was a complete mess (and still is), several different sync programs, the N8 that never came, Symbia^3 that never came, etc etc.
I hardly ever bother with NOKIA's PC application, I have OTA updates, USB mass storage for uploading/downloading music, videos and pictures (plus of course there's full bluetooth connectivity to any device) and I can install apps direct from the SD card using Symbian's file manager.
I disliked iTunes more than I disliked my iPhone, that was another reason I returned to a Symbian handset.
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2012-07-03
, 23:49
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#90
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Originally Posted by Lumiaman
Instead of looking to Android and Windows, they should have stayed on a very focused path and grow the media, content, desktop interaction of Maemo. I've never used Nokia Suite, don't intend to either. But it's not about me... it's about the user that has to be shown pretty colors and announcements that a <insert something new here> is out or coming and give them an easy way to take their money.
I completely agree with your assessment, but don't understand why then you say that NOKIA had options other than android or windows?
iTunes does just that. Nokia should have been worrying about the less than savvy folks, they have the most dispensable income. Instead, they restarted Maemo when they should have been doing the refinements we saw in Maemo 5 and Harmattan way back in 2008.
But to do that, they'd have to have funded it. They didn't. Can't refine Maemo or Harmattan if you're not funding it. You can't refine your desktop app if you're only reacting and poorly funding it.
All of the funding went to Symbian. Android is not an option. A year later, WP7 was a bad option. They should have funded Harmattan more.
Perhaps they were visionaries with Maemo, but they can't finish their visions.
Mark your calendars folks.
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The N97. It was the first response post iPhone release and it was rather weak. Comes with Music, bringing back NGage only to kill it again, then re-marketing things as Ovi when the rest of the world thought it an odd word - looks like ovary thus eggs, or the middle of bovine, thus cow in English, but made perfect sense if you were Finnish or willing to reason why it was named Ovi - and to be honest those responses were seen by many (myself included) as clutching at straws.
Now, the "decline" from 2007 and so forth is centered around the so-called arena of smartphones that had music, video and games as well as PIM type applications for your smartphone. Ovi was actually bigger than Android's market in many respects (transactions, apps, developers) for a while... but their offerings seem to not have 3rd party support for why we're here - Maemo.
Maemo was billed as their top level OS, yet the N900 was a meager seller compared to the N95 variations (read: speculation since the N95's numbers were actually known, but not the N900) and then the N9 managed to inherit a new CEO that marketed and sold it in Kazakhstan and not many other "first world" areas directly at the same time as the Nokia distribution channels were being dismantled.
But this all came after only two Nokia stores were opened in the US, while Apple had laid claim that most of the US population was within 100 miles of an Apple Store via strategic placement. This is after placement of iTunes, procurement of media and all from a company headed by a guy that's never done one cellphone in his life.
Nokia should have been ahead of the game there. But this is the North American market. Let's look to Europe. The issues with the initial N95 running out of memory carried over to the later variants, which was met with an still overpriced N97 that basically was panned as a mediocre phone. That was the first iPhone response from Nokia (reminder).
Nokia then comes out with the N8, taking almost 2 years to get Symbian to the point it was touch screen friendly in a way that most modern phones would be - Belle if it came out in 2008 would have killed, but it came out in 2011 a bit late imho - and Nokia just seemed like that leviathan that couldn't get things together. Meanwhile, Maemo was started and stopped 5 times, MeeGo came out and wasn't pushed by even Intel into the handset area with Nokia being the only handset manufacturer to truly build something - LG cancelled out - and then the N9 came out.
Truly a remarkable phone, but it could now be seen as too little, too late because Elop was in place, the foibles of the many restarts of Maemo had taken their toll and our favorite mobile OS was now an esoteric choice second to Android and iOS. All of the above were in motion since 2006 really (earlier if you include the 770) and not handled well.
That's my take. I'm quite sure this wall of text will be greeted with tl;dr so allow me to summarize: Nokia wasted their lead in tablets as well as delivering content to smartphones, didn't quickly respond to the iPhone (scoffed it off) and now are paying for those decisions under OPK by opening the door for somebody like Elop to walk in.
They should have thought things through a bit better and didn't. Sadly, they even had the tools to make things better.
Last edited by gerbick; 2012-07-03 at 18:37. Reason: Edited a misspell