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Posts: 1,259 | Thanked: 3,894 times | Joined on May 2011 @ Brazil
#1
It's great to have a Nemo Mobile section here in TMO.

My question for experienced Mer / Nemo Mobile developers. Are there images for chroot (using Easy Chroot Harmattan) on Nokia N9/N950 for :
- Mer (without GUI) ?
- Mer SDK (without GUI) ?
- Mer+Nemo ?
- Mer+Nemo SDK ?
If not available, could anyone point how to create the images and other necessary scripts ?

The images could help a lot many MeeGo Harmattan users who want to start developing for Mer/Nemo, without the need of multi-boot Nokia N9/N950 with Mer/Nemo.

As you can see in the topic "Compiling & packaging on MeeGo Harmattan device", section "2) Harmattan SDK on device", we can use Easy Chroot to run many things on Nokia N9/N950 : Debian, Harmattan SDK, Maemo 5 SDK, etc. I use chrooted Harmattan SDK on N9 to package many of my projects (IPython, etc).

I'm currently maintainer of "Easy Debian Harmattan" (contributed by Qole and Javispedro), so I can eventually help to create an "Easy Mer" or "Easy Nemo".
__________________
Python, C/C++, Qt and CAS developer. For Maemo/MeeGo/Sailfish :
Integral, Derivative, Limit - calculating mathematical integrals, derivatives and limits. SymPy - Computer Algebra System.
MatPlotLib - 2D & 3D plots in Python. IPython - Python interactive shell.
-- My blog about mobile & scientific computing ---
Sailfish : Sony Xperia X, Gemini, Jolla, Jolla C, Jolla Tablet, Nexus 4. Nokia N9, N900, N810.

Last edited by rcolistete; 2013-01-30 at 18:02. Reason: Added missing link
 
Posts: 1,291 | Thanked: 2,260 times | Joined on May 2011
#2
I'm not sure if anyone tested chroot setup for ARM host platforms. As far as I know all the work was done to create chroot setup for x86 ones:

https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Platform_SDK
https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Platform_SDK_and_SB2

In order to develop, one doesn't need to put the chrooted environment on the ARM device - you can put it on x86 host. But for running - it can be helpful, and should be possible in theory.

See also https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Pla...DK_Development

Visit #mer channel on freenode.net to discuss it, if you are interested in helping developing such setup.

Last edited by shmerl; 2013-01-30 at 00:33.
 

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Posts: 1,259 | Thanked: 3,894 times | Joined on May 2011 @ Brazil
#3
Originally Posted by shmerl View Post
In order to develop, one doesn't need to put the chrooted environment on the ARM device - you can put it on x86 host. But for running - it can be helpful, and should be possible in theory
Some reasons to have Mer/Nemo (SDK) image running in chroot on Nokia N9/N950 :
- compiling & packaging on Harmattan SDK chrooted on N9 is fast, sometimes faster than on PC, sometimes not so slower;
- simpler to install than Mer/Nemo SDK on PC;
- simpler than running Mer/Nemo on multi-boot on N9/N950;
- freedom to develop anywhere, using any PC via ssh to develop for Mer/Nemo, without complex and large Mer/Nemo SDK installations;
- because we, Maemo & MeeGo Harmattan users & developers, can, others can't

Originally Posted by shmerl View Post
Visit #mer channel on freenode.net to discuss it, if you are interested in helping developing such setup.
Ok. But I will also invite Mer/Nemo people to participate here in this TMO Nemo Mobile section.
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Python, C/C++, Qt and CAS developer. For Maemo/MeeGo/Sailfish :
Integral, Derivative, Limit - calculating mathematical integrals, derivatives and limits. SymPy - Computer Algebra System.
MatPlotLib - 2D & 3D plots in Python. IPython - Python interactive shell.
-- My blog about mobile & scientific computing ---
Sailfish : Sony Xperia X, Gemini, Jolla, Jolla C, Jolla Tablet, Nexus 4. Nokia N9, N900, N810.
 
Posts: 1,291 | Thanked: 2,260 times | Joined on May 2011
#4
A few questions:

Originally Posted by rcolistete View Post
compiling & packaging on Harmattan SDK chrooted on N9 is fast, sometimes faster than on PC,
That's unexpected, especially if you have a good multicore CPU and use all cores for building. The only downside in crosscompilation in Mer SDK is ARM emulation through Qemu, but other than that - multiple cores speed things up a lot. I guess when more powerful multicore ARM computers will come out - that would be compensated. When compiling fennec on dual core x86_64 machine - it can take quite a time (that can be tweaked though to avoid running python through Qemu in scratchbox2).

Originally Posted by rcolistete View Post
- simpler to install than Mer/Nemo SDK on PC;
Why would chroot on ARM be easier to install than chroot on x86? chroot is chroot wherever it is, no? What can become simpler is avoiding using Qemu and stuff, since it's the same arch.

Originally Posted by rcolistete View Post
- freedom to develop anywhere, using any PC via ssh to develop for Mer/Nemo, without complex and large Mer/Nemo SDK installations;
How would size differ? I understood the only difference would be in putting the chroot on the ARM host, instead of the x86 one. Size wise it's the same bits (except may be minus need for Qemu as above).

Other than that - it's surely useful to have an option of ARM host for this.

Last edited by shmerl; 2013-01-31 at 02:51.
 
Posts: 1,259 | Thanked: 3,894 times | Joined on May 2011 @ Brazil
#5
Originally Posted by shmerl View Post
A few questions:
That's unexpected, especially if you have a good multicore CPU and use all cores for building. The only downside in crosscompilation in Mer SDK is ARM emulation through Qemu, but other than that - multiple cores speed things up a lot. I guess when more powerful multicore ARM computers will come out - that would be compensated. When compiling fennec on dual core x86_64 machine - it can take quite a time (that can be tweaked though to avoid running python through Qemu in scratchbox2).
Low-cost notebook with hard-disk is slower than Nokia N9 with flash memory.

Originally Posted by shmerl View Post
Why would chroot on ARM be easier to install than chroot on x86? chroot is chroot whenever it is, no? What can become simpler is avoiding using Qemu and stuff, since it's the same arch.
Well, at least the Harmattan SDK setup on x86 PC is a lot more difficult than running it on N9/N950 via chroot (using "Easy Chroot Harmattan").

Originally Posted by shmerl View Post
How would size differ? I understood the only difference would be in putting the chroot on the ARM host, instead of the x86 one. Size wise it's the same bits (except may be minus need for Qemu as above).
Yes, no Qemu, no Scratchbox, no x86 SDK, for example.

Originally Posted by shmerl View Post
Other than that - it's surely useful to have an option of ARM host for this.
N9500 & N9/N950 developers do crazy things. Including coding, packaging and submitting new softwares in bizarre situations.
__________________
Python, C/C++, Qt and CAS developer. For Maemo/MeeGo/Sailfish :
Integral, Derivative, Limit - calculating mathematical integrals, derivatives and limits. SymPy - Computer Algebra System.
MatPlotLib - 2D & 3D plots in Python. IPython - Python interactive shell.
-- My blog about mobile & scientific computing ---
Sailfish : Sony Xperia X, Gemini, Jolla, Jolla C, Jolla Tablet, Nexus 4. Nokia N9, N900, N810.
 
Posts: 1,291 | Thanked: 2,260 times | Joined on May 2011
#6
I'd recommend for you to see how Mer SDK install goes (it's rather straightforward, and seems to be lighter than Harmattan one) and figure out if you can adjust this process for ARM hosts, so one could use unified approach for all architectures (i.e. when it's on ARM - Qemu is bypassed, when on other arch - Qemu is used etc.).

Last edited by shmerl; 2013-01-30 at 19:33.
 

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#7
For a simple SDK rootstrap to link against, building on-device is easy-peasy. You could simply get a base system, build dependencies and a native compiler.

It'd also have moderately okay build times - I had no problem building Hildon on the N900, so a moderately-sized program builds just fine on an ARM machine. Just don't try to do things like build kernels on-device. Say hello to swap hell if you do during the linking stage.

Now, who's up for making and maintaining Mer ARM rootstraps with the right build tools?
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Last edited by Hurrian; 2013-02-04 at 13:10.
 

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