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AndyNokia232's Avatar
Posts: 590 | Thanked: 475 times | Joined on Oct 2010 @ New York City
#61
Originally Posted by ndi View Post
Over time, apps I miss will be ported, UI will be streamed, themes enhanced, and more and more of what I loved from N900 will find its way into E7.

Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
Thanks again for more insight into a phone that I don't own, but could do quite soon.
I agree that it seems, albeit slowly-but-surely, Maemo features we love are living on in Symbian updates. The swipeable homescreens in Anna are a clear nod to Maemo. I hope that Belle furthers this salvaging of Maemo features, and leaves us with Symbian devices that are worthy of their price tags.
I suppose one of my (new!) worries is that Belle would (for reasons I couldn't explain because I'm not expert in tech) be reliant on 1GHz processors. Rumours abound on the web for the next batch of Symbian phones (Zeta, Helen, Fate and Cindy) are coming with both Belle and 1GHz processors. Could it be that when Belle is released (let's say Christmas?) the N8, E7, C7 gang won't be eligible to upgrade with their 680 MHz processors.
What's your take on that?
Also, which apps have you downloaded from the Ovi store? It was useful to know what you like from BetaLabs, and incidentally, I think that Sleeping Screen consumes either the same or less than the standard 'white clock' screen. Thanks again for this excellent post

Last edited by AndyNokia232; 2011-07-21 at 19:26.
 
Posts: 1,033 | Thanked: 1,013 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#62
Originally Posted by ndi View Post
... are best ignored.
Why ignore somebody who has had an experience with both devices in hand? It's a forum, not a review site, and as far as I am aware, discussion is supposed to take place on a forum. And if you are so confident in your new E7, be my guest and comare it with a N900 beside it.

E7 beats N900 in lots of fronts, however web browsing is far from it.
 
ndi's Avatar
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#63
Originally Posted by PMaff View Post
Androids and iPhones always had a browser rendering that was more of the sort "wait...wait...wooosh...there it is" whereas my N900 builds up parts of the browsed page time by time
E7's Symbian browser does that too. Doing the wait thing is actually faster, because it doesn't do as many partial renders and because it no longer loses as much time seeing if user did something.

User input is not queued, like on Windows (mouse clicks are queued) or any other PCs (regardless of OS) where keyboard is buffered. When doing multitouch, it's hard to save the input, since there's a lot of it, and because the phone might not catch up to user anyway.

As a result, to actually ensure UI responsiveness one needs to kind of reserve some resources. Not literally, but there is polling involved and it takes precedence over rendering.

Also, partial rendering is also more complicated. As page loads, page changes. HTML in modern sites no longer flows top to bottom, for example a table could be split in 2 columns, the first one is long and rendered and, the second one (declared at 40 pixels) contains the word "Maemo". It's larger than 40 pixels and all known browsers choose to re-flow the columns rather than cut text, meaning all that was rendered must be re-rendered.

Steps can be taken to alleviate this, such as reserving placeholders for images, and holding reflow, but overall it's less efficient.

It gives the user a sense of speed, because it typically doesn't have the users hold in a "wait for it" pattern, user could read content while it's being re-flowed, after all.

However, let's be honest. We read reviews, comparisons and benchmarks. And in a benchmark, it's who's first that wins the "better browser" award, and it's that result that spreads the (false?) belief that X browser is better than Y.

It's understandable, if not the best user experience, and if one does it they all have to.

There are browsers out there that don't really care about sales of devices, and those have a different approach. Like Opera Mobile.

Originally Posted by PMaff View Post
At least compared to the iPhones and Androids that I've seen.
Androids are funny. I have seen 3 Optimus One P500 phones on my friends and the experience differs considerably. Mine, e.g., has a very insensitive touch, but is faster on the web. Very weird. All phones have little to none apps installed from new (3 were girl's phones, and had 2 games and pics on them - nothing else).

At least iPhones are comparable. Never noticed a difference. Which is saying something, since some have hundreds of apps and others have 3.

Originally Posted by AndyNokia232 View Post
I suppose one of my (new!) worries is that Belle would (for reasons I couldn't explain because I'm not expert in tech) be reliant on 1GHz processors. Rumours abound on the web for the next batch of Symbian phones (Zeta, Helen, Fate and Cindy) are coming with both Belle and 1GHz processors. Could it be that when Belle is released (let's say Christmas?) the N8, E7, C7 gang won't be eligible to upgrade with their 680 MHz processors.
What's your take on that?
I'll have to say that there is a good chance it will come to E7 just fine. I also read the Nokia (blog? forum? news? can't remember) release notes for S Belle and I distinctly remember them saying that the enhancements would be coming to phones that now run S3, like N8 and E7 and X7 or C7 or something.

Can't find the link, still, I wouldn't worry.

As for power, let's be serious. A 30% decrease in CPU is barely noticeable. It would take a long time for you to figure if your well-known phone (N900) was running 700 or 900 - definitely not something you'd know just by looking at it. E7 has a 700 MHz CPU and the new ones have 1000. To be useful 1GHz must be butter-smooth (otherwise older devices are smoother) which means that by any standards 700 MHz should be sufficient with a little optimization.

I can't believe that a few UI enhancements would slow down the UI so much it would drag its feet on 700 MHz. If it would, then operating the UI on a 1GHz would take 70%+ of capacity making the phone unusable while the user interacted with it.

Remember, this the OS and UI we are talking about, not an intensive operation. It needs to be less than a large drain on resources, otherwise that 9 days standby is going straight to heck. I can fiddle with the device 48 hours, but Maps will drain it in 4-6, so it stands to reason less than 10% of device capacity is used in menus, animations, settings, etc. That includes linear drains like screen and wifi that go on just by being unlocked and idle.

It's not like an enhancement to that would peak the E7.

Originally Posted by AndyNokia232 View Post
Also, which apps have you downloaded from the Ovi store? It was useful to know what you like from BetaLabs, and incidentally, I think that Sleeping Screen consumes either the same or less than the standard 'white clock' screen. Thanks again for this excellent post
On an AMOLED, image displayed is paramount. Using black menus gives you maybe 24 hours, while a white web page drains it in 6. Having an animation on the screen means that not only device solely idles, but also that there is a significant drain by the screen.

I'm guessing it's a low contrast, colored screen to save power, but I'm quite sure it's not draining as much as a screensaver.

You did say "white clock". I don't have a white clock, I do have a thin-line-outline-of-a-clock screensaver and a less-thin-outline-of-a-clock when I push Menu - but that disappears in 3 seconds unless unlocked.

If you really mean a white clock then very possibly the clock is more draining.

Like I said, there's going to be some of that on my phone soon. It's just that I'm jammed in a save battery loop from my N900. I routinely make it home with 60% battery.

As for OVI installs, I have a few I like: Games (HAWX, Sudoku, several Angry Birds, Monopoly, Assassin's Creed, Settlers, Worms, SPB Brain Evolution), GPS(LiveVew Beta Labs, Compass, Parking2), Net (Opera Mobile and Mini, AccuWeather+widget), a few social apps, including several chat, FB, Skype), Imaging and multimedia (Nokia's second photo browser - hint: it's just like Cool Iris, 3D image, barcode scanner, Panorama), Youtube downloader, Screen Snap, Angle Meter, Decibel Meter, Force Control (If you saw the android 5-icon toggler, it's that), Energy profiler, Battery Monitor, Situations, Swype, NightLight and, of course, SPB Mobile Shell (free).

To name a few.

Plenty installed, my home screen are nearly full and I'd have more but I'm just not a fan of a few things others are crazy about: driving games, GPS tours, silly fart apps, etc.

Store.Ovi.Com has plenty to show for itself. Tell it you have an E7 and it will gladly show a list of stuff for you to do.

And it hasn't slowed a bit. Warning: it takes longer to boot. Take-a-shower long, from power to all-butter and all-widgets updated. You thought N900 was slow to boot.

HAWX is my favorite. I remember when "f18.com" was not a site, and when you needed a boot floppy to run the game. I also remember it was 2D, had virtually no sound, and relied on all PCs having the same CPU to run. The fact that the 3D, accelerometer controlled version is on my phone, glitchless and with cutscenes reminds me how good I have it.
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N900 dead and Nokia no longer replaces them. Thanks for all the fish.

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#64
Thanks again for even more excellent information. I'm going to struggle with this one, my N900 is very reliable and does it all for me, I just fell in love with the E7's design, and like you said at the very beginning of your post, have become a little tired of the lack of support, its aging looks, its lame battery life. But I still love it, and if I go for the E7, I will keep my N900 safe somewhere, for i feel it still has a useful place for me, and it is the only phone I have really relied on. I'm so glad I got it, and it's been a great year, but I think it's time for something a bit more up-to-date, and the E7 does it for me. Thanks for all of your answers, if I had reservations about the E7 before, I'm all ready to get it now I think. I also think I'll enjoy having a mobile that stands out from the crowd - especially in the US, where we're surrounded by plastic Samsungs, HTCs and iPhones - plus I tend to ignore the hype on Android as I always liked the familiarity of Symbian.
Let my next Nokia adventure begin! (just as soon as I get paid!)

Last edited by AndyNokia232; 2011-07-23 at 13:56.
 
F2thaK's Avatar
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#65
bought a used E7 for the missus for $320 AUD delivered. has 8 months warranty left. will get it tuesday. im keepng her N900 as a spare.
 
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#66
How responsive is iPlayer on the E7?
 
AndyNokia232's Avatar
Posts: 590 | Thanked: 475 times | Joined on Oct 2010 @ New York City
#67
Just took advantage of the E7's huge price drop on Amazon, it's down to $375!

Looking forward to seeing if I'll like it as much as my N900.

I'll post my own findings soon.
 
ndi's Avatar
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#68
Originally Posted by AndyNokia232 View Post
Thanks again for even more excellent information. I'm going to struggle with this one, my N900 is very reliable and does it all for me, I just fell in love with the E7's design, and like you said at the very beginning of your post, have become a little tired of the lack of support, its aging looks, its lame battery life. But I still love it, and if I go for the E7, I will keep my N900 safe somewhere, for i feel it still has a useful place for me, and it is the only phone I have really relied on.
I wish they left me my N900, but no dice. Even with no GSM signal I wanted to keep it, but with GPS dead it was kinda pointless, if all it does is web I'd better go for a bigger screen.

Glad I helped some of you make a decision, whichever it was (some kept their N900).

Also, the news:

QT Dropbox client found its way into OVI (CuteBox), used it today, fast, smooth, sleek design, an iPhonesque design with high reliability. Free. 5 stars.

Series Watcher, a clone of Series Finale I missed so much are looking into a Symbian port, after Linux and Windows. I could have that soon, I hope.

A "girly" app has also found its way into OVI, but it's pay only. It's dirt cheap (most are) but I don't own a Visa, just a Visa Electron (still this, Nokia? **), so I'm stuck for now with lower apps, but it promises cycle learning, curve predictions, all in all a real app.

I guess it's just one left: VNC. Let's go people, there are literally hundreds of apps out there that use network and QT is available, what's keeping you?

ETA:
** Sorry, Nokia
My Visa Electron got through today, apparently the issue was resolved, even if the labels still say "Visa". Took a while since I tried to purchase Angry Birds packs or N900, but I guess later is better than never.
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N900 dead and Nokia no longer replaces them. Thanks for all the fish.

Keep the forums clean: use "Thanks" button instead of the thank you post.

Last edited by ndi; 2011-07-29 at 17:44.
 

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#69
I have now been using the Nokia E7 for a little under a week, and here is what I have found:

Physically, the thing is a beauty. The screen is huge and the colours just 'pop' while the blacks are very deep. In bright sunlight it's fine. It moves into its slanted position in a nice classy way, not a stiff clunky way like the demo phones in the stores do. This thing has been designed really well and much thought has gone into it, clearly. The people who designed the E7 should be bloody proud of themselves.

I have enjoyed using it so far, it is quick and responsive, and I LOVE the fact that calling/receiving calls is much, much easier compared to the N900. It's like it's how it's supposed to be!

But I can't say it's all amazing. I have had it freeze up during installing an app, or after the app is installed it'll freeze up. Having to hold down the power button until it vibrates 3 times and restarts is something I've done about 4 times already. The worse thing that has happened is during an installation of IM for Nokia (chat) a message popped up saying "Critical error...restarting) or something, and when it did, ALL 3 of my homecreens (which I had tinkered with and customised) reverted back to stock-out-of-the-box and I had to do it all over again, which pissed me off.
Also I know the screen is big and pretty, but I was a bit shocked to see the pixels so clearly in Angry Birds, it was like a retro computer game! But it played smoothly and the touch screen was super responsive.

The camera is my other, main niggle. It takes awful indoor shots, the pictures are blurry and full of noise. I've tried a couple of the apps on the Ovi store to help, but they are still pretty bad. Not that the N900 took great indoor shots, but these are basically poor. The outdoor ones are fine though. I wish it was possible to comment before uploading pics to facebook via the 'share' button in Photos. Oh well.

I have found it easy to transfer music and video files to the mass memory, and I kept some N900 sounds and wallpapers to give it a familiar feel, which is cool. I downloaded a 'Symbian Anna' theme from Ovi - I love those icons! Looking forward to seeing what the actual Anna update brings to the E7 when it gets released later this month.
The web browser is fine for me, I was used to that kind of browser from my previous Symbian phones (E75 etc) so no problem there. I have managed to find nearly all app replacements on Ovi so I'm not missing too much from my N900. The fMobi facebook app isn't on Ovi, but I found it via Google, it is a *gem* of a free app.

I have ordered the official Nokia CC-3009 E7 case that sits around the base only, mainly because it slides too easily on my coffee table and I'm sure I'm going to scratch the camera cover. And when I'm out and about, flipping open the keyboard is worrying with that slippery aluminium body, so this will give me much more grip too.

What else? The keyboard is a dream come true, and I also love Sleeping Screen from beta labs. So far the battery does fine for a day of low use, but installing apps kills it pretty quickly.

All in all, I am glad I got it, I've still got lots to try out on it, but it's a good choice for me. Thanks for all of your help! If you can advise on the camera, I'd be very interested to see what you had to say about making it better (if possible). Cheers.
 

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#70
Originally Posted by alcockell View Post
How responsive is iPlayer on the E7?
Annoyingly we can't get the iPlayer here in the US, but I can tell you that youtube vids play smoothly as does SPB TV app. No complaints at all.
 
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