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2007-08-04
, 20:09
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#32
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Originally Posted by SD69
While I'm sure there's truth in what you say, SD, the fact remains that Nokia could have easily mitigated the ire of that rabid fan base (doesn't every company want them?) by at least making sure customers had immediate access to apps (3rd party or otherwise) that filled the major gaps at the time of launch-- not months later. See a parallel with the internet tablets here?
As to UI, you've got it backwards, S60 was designed for one thumb operation on cell phones and S80 was designed specifically for the Communicator, which had unusually wide screen format, four soft keys, function keys and QWERTY, and is very DISsimilar to Hildon. Changing the UI was NOT an easy change, like some imply. Yes, loss of a fax is a big deterent, especially in Indonesia etc where the Communicator has a rabid fan base in part because business is still conducted w/ fax there, but a 3rd party (or NOkia) will fill that quickly.
Nokia/ES did not ignore these considerations. They made a business decision that S80 is a niche product with little 3rd party app support, that the field of handheld computer-like devices is getting very competitive, and that the migration to S60 was necessary to keep the product successful. They are trying to expand the appeal to business users, BB users, etc., who have never seen a Nokia device as a computer-like tool. Those people ask about software compatibility all the time. Their conclusion is that global sales of the S60 Communicator will exceed the sales of any previous Communicator in any previous year, and bring in NEW customers, and they are probably right. Nokia is a company that demands performance and looks 3 years out and not at the past.
We should worry that the IT may come to be seen a niche product with little widespread appeal. (Not to mention the E90, when it enjoys substantial 3rd party app support in a year or so and relatively easy SW development, will be a competitor to the IT for users who are not price conscious.)
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2007-08-04
, 20:43
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Posts: 355 |
Thanked: 9 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Helsinki, Finland
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#33
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Great post SD69. What I do not understand by way of complaints is that the E90 simply smokes the older Communicators in shear power and multi-tasking alone. The old guard seems to be complaining about a few MIA applications while ignoring the fact that everything they can do on the inside of the phone, they can also do on the outside. This is because of the standardization of S60 throughout the phone. As I mentioned before, faxes are going the way of the Doo Doo Bird. Digital Senders are hot and happening. Scan it, PDF it, email it. Done. Having a standardized OS platform for developers should yield some pretty robust and interesting software while hopefully keeping development costs low. I think the article was, as someone here put it, Nokia bashing as these missing features surely can not be considered device killers.
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2007-08-04
, 20:46
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Posts: 355 |
Thanked: 9 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Helsinki, Finland
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#34
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Originally Posted by Texrat
While I'm sure there's truth in what you say, SD, the fact remains that Nokia could have easily mitigated the ire of that rabid fan base (doesn't every company want them?) by at least making sure customers had immediate access to apps (3rd party or otherwise) that filled the major gaps at the time of launch-- not months later. See a parallel with the internet tablets here?
Don't these apps already exist? My LonelyCatGames Internet radio will work on my N95 and E90. This app was available long before the E90 was launched. Consumers had access to these applications. Maybe they were too lazy to look or didn't feel that they should have to pay for them, but Nokia did not let the customer down by failing to provide apps that were already on the market. They were there when the device launched, not months, weeks or even days later.
__________________
"Einstein was right. " "Einstein was probably one of them" - Close Encounters of the Third Kind......
"Einstein was right. " "Einstein was probably one of them" - Close Encounters of the Third Kind......
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2007-08-04
, 20:47
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Posts: 1,513 |
Thanked: 2,248 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ US
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#35
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Originally Posted by Texrat
Yes, a tradeoff was made. The E90 went to market quickly but the opinion of the former S80 Communicator loyalists is not determinative of whether it was wrong to do so. As I said, Nokia ES is going after a new broader class of business user and the determinant of product success is whether it pleases that broader group of people, not whether it displeases a much smaller group of people. Holding off launch to please everyone has its risks. Unfortunately, this article focuses on the negatives. The E90 is a good, if expensive, product and has been relatively well received.
While I'm sure there's truth in what you say, SD, the fact remains that Nokia could have easily mitigated the ire of that rabid fan base (doesn't every company want them?) by at least making sure customers had immediate access to apps (3rd party or otherwise) that filled the major gaps at the time of launch-- not months later. See a parallel with the internet tablets here?
Last edited by SD69; 2007-08-04 at 20:52.
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2007-08-04
, 20:55
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#36
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I agree with what you say, SD, I just tend to lean a little in the other direction. Yes, there was an opportunity to broaden the base. Yes, there was the risk of offending what will turn out to be a fragment of the overall intended base... but I still believe there are better ways to handle the situation than was done, and this improvment actually revolves mostly not around tech and apps but PR.
Nokia has acknowledged severe shortcomings in that effort. I can't divulge details, but a very serious internal effort is underway to understand just how far Nokia executive management is divorced from the end users (if/when at all) and see where there are some problematic misconceptions. Those misconceptions do exist, and are strongly ingrained in some areas, so it will be interesting to me to see what degree of new receptiveness evolves.
Nokia has acknowledged severe shortcomings in that effort. I can't divulge details, but a very serious internal effort is underway to understand just how far Nokia executive management is divorced from the end users (if/when at all) and see where there are some problematic misconceptions. Those misconceptions do exist, and are strongly ingrained in some areas, so it will be interesting to me to see what degree of new receptiveness evolves.
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2007-08-04
, 21:07
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Posts: 61 |
Thanked: 2 times |
Joined on Jan 2007
@ United Kingdom
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#37
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Originally Posted by Texrat
One problem can be simply that the feedback will use cross sections of the user community to which the device / software has not been popular to date - ie they use the feedback to gain new market growth and increase sales. As such, the current user base is often forgotten about.
I wonder how many other executive decisions are made based on tainted feedback...
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2007-08-04
, 21:12
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Posts: 61 |
Thanked: 2 times |
Joined on Jan 2007
@ United Kingdom
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#38
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Originally Posted by SD69
I heard it was down to cost - the new phones used different architectures and chipsets, and it was cheaper to modify S60 to support the new screen formats / keyboards / dual screens etc. than it was to update S80.
They made a business decision that S80 is a niche product with little 3rd party app support, that the field of handheld computer-like devices is getting very competitive, and that the migration to S60 was necessary to keep the product successful.
I must admit, seeing a SatNav program working on the outer screen does show the power of the new E90 that would never have been possible with the old S80.
As for a lack of 3rd party app support, most of the S80 developers are constantly moaning about the flakey APIs they have to use which often crash, so maybe Nokia should look closer to home for the cause of the demise of S80...
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2007-08-04
, 23:44
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Posts: 46 |
Thanked: 7 times |
Joined on Jun 2007
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#39
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WhaWhat I find interesting about the Register article, and many of the contributors here, is
how they claim to speak for 'the business user'. Not so, people that read the Reg,
and this forum, are tech heads (possibly tech heads in business, but tech heads
nonetheless) and if any such REALLY knows what the typical business user wants, better than a formalised focus group study in any case, I'd be amazed. Non hitech businessmen are a weird bunch. A few weeks ago in a boardroom meeting one of the execs asked me why he kept getting OUT OF MEMORY errors on his E61. As it turns out he didnt know that he had left all the apps open, or that his phone was multitasking, or even what multitasking really is. I have owned communicators since the 9000 and s60s since the 6600, and have very seldom wanted to send a fax. And never known a fellow associate even mention the fax capabilities of their communications. These people often dont even know that it is possible to send a fax from a computer, let alone a phone. I exagerate, of course...
While I do agree that the UI of the 9300(/&i) was purty slick, the e61 and then e61i was a successful departure and first salvo into qwerty s60. The E90 will continue and improve on this, no doubt.
how they claim to speak for 'the business user'. Not so, people that read the Reg,
and this forum, are tech heads (possibly tech heads in business, but tech heads
nonetheless) and if any such REALLY knows what the typical business user wants, better than a formalised focus group study in any case, I'd be amazed. Non hitech businessmen are a weird bunch. A few weeks ago in a boardroom meeting one of the execs asked me why he kept getting OUT OF MEMORY errors on his E61. As it turns out he didnt know that he had left all the apps open, or that his phone was multitasking, or even what multitasking really is. I have owned communicators since the 9000 and s60s since the 6600, and have very seldom wanted to send a fax. And never known a fellow associate even mention the fax capabilities of their communications. These people often dont even know that it is possible to send a fax from a computer, let alone a phone. I exagerate, of course...
While I do agree that the UI of the 9300(/&i) was purty slick, the e61 and then e61i was a successful departure and first salvo into qwerty s60. The E90 will continue and improve on this, no doubt.
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2007-08-04
, 23:59
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Posts: 355 |
Thanked: 9 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Helsinki, Finland
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#40
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Originally Posted by pieter_jh
Excellent post, and right on the mark. With the software already available for the S60 v3, the E90 will simply benefit from software that was tested, and refined well before the E90 hit the shelves.
WhaWhat I find interesting about the Register article, and many of the contributors here, is
how they claim to speak for 'the business user'. Not so, people that read the Reg,
and this forum, are tech heads (possibly tech heads in business, but tech heads
nonetheless) and if any such REALLY knows what the typical business user wants, better than a formalised focus group study in any case, I'd be amazed. Non hitech businessmen are a weird bunch. A few weeks ago in a boardroom meeting one of the execs asked me why he kept getting OUT OF MEMORY errors on his E61. As it turns out he didnt know that he had left all the apps open, or that his phone was multitasking, or even what multitasking really is. I have owned communicators since the 9000 and s60s since the 6600, and have very seldom wanted to send a fax. And never known a fellow associate even mention the fax capabilities of their communications. These people often dont even know that it is possible to send a fax from a computer, let alone a phone. I exagerate, of course...
While I do agree that the UI of the 9300(/&i) was purty slick, the e61 and then e61i was a successful departure and first salvo into qwerty s60. The E90 will continue and improve on this, no doubt.
__________________
"Einstein was right. " "Einstein was probably one of them" - Close Encounters of the Third Kind......
"Einstein was right. " "Einstein was probably one of them" - Close Encounters of the Third Kind......
"Einstein was right. " "Einstein was probably one of them" - Close Encounters of the Third Kind......