Notices


Reply
Thread Tools
Posts: 1,291 | Thanked: 2,259 times | Joined on May 2011
#51
@coderus: That's implicit. I'm just addressing those who aren't aware about its problems not to use it as well, because it's proliferating non federated, walled and insecure IM service. As if we didn't have enough of them already. It's important to let people know about it especially now, when the service is hyped as "good" and "better alternative" and etc.

Last edited by shmerl; 2014-02-24 at 20:12.
 

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to shmerl For This Useful Post:
jimmy neutron's Avatar
Posts: 140 | Thanked: 95 times | Joined on Nov 2010 @ Andromeda Galaxy
#52
Originally Posted by shmerl View Post
@coderus: That's implicit. I'm just addressing those who aren't aware about its problems not to use it as well, because it's proliferating non federated, walled and insecure IM service. As if we didn't have enough of them already. It's important to let people know about it especially now, when the ervice is hyped as "good" and "better alternative" and etc.
What do you suggest for my not so tech savvy friends & family...
Don't get me wrong i understand your point... i even read the article in your link it.s outrageous!!!

My opinion this is the best alternative i have at the moment..

PS.. i used 1MobileMarket (on my jolla)to install Telegram it,s working pretty well.. can't wait to see a native Telegram app with GUI and a ton of features..

Kind Regards J.Neutron
__________________
Brain Blast !!! Never trust atoms they make up Everything...
 

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to jimmy neutron For This Useful Post:
Posts: 1,291 | Thanked: 2,259 times | Joined on May 2011
#53
Originally Posted by jimmy neutron View Post
What do you suggest for my not so tech savvy friends & family...
Don't get me wrong i understand your point... i even read the article in your link it.s outrageous!!
If you can, use any existing XMPP service. There are many servers open for registration (DuckDuckGo: https://duck.co/blog/using-pidgin-with-xmpp-jabber, jabber.org or whatever else: https://xmpp.net/directory.php

Get a client for your platform, and use it. Registering an account shouldn't be any harder than for e-mail and non tech savvy people handle it just fine. Users don't need to be registered on the same server to communicate - that's the point of XMPP federation. Same idea as e-mail. And it's the main fault of Telegram, Whatsapp and etc. - they completely fail in this aspect.

To choose a client - for desktop there are Pidgin and Jitsi for example (and more). For mobile there is Jitsi for Android. Sailfish has its own XMPP client (though it doesn't support end to end encryption so far).

Last edited by shmerl; 2014-02-24 at 21:03.
 

The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to shmerl For This Useful Post:
Posts: 144 | Thanked: 242 times | Joined on Nov 2007 @ Finland
#54
May be you should create new topic for advertizing XMPP and let other people discuss about Telegram and use Telegram if they want. By trying to order other people not to use a service you set yourself on same level withFacebook, Google and others wanting to dictate peoples data.
 
Posts: 1,291 | Thanked: 2,259 times | Joined on May 2011
#55
@Penguin: There are topics which discuss XMPP here already. I just posted a warning for users who aren't aware of this problem (and there seem to be many even here). I don't intend to continue it in this thread, since it's enough.
 

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to shmerl For This Useful Post:
Posts: 144 | Thanked: 242 times | Joined on Nov 2007 @ Finland
#56
I do not see any bigger problem there than in federated protocols. Problems are different, but privacy is problem in all of those. Still biggest security and privacy risk is not any specific application or protocol but human.

Yeah, I know many of you disagree, but do not bother, I won't change my opinion
 
Posts: 1,291 | Thanked: 2,259 times | Joined on May 2011
#57
Privacy problems can be anywhere in different degrees, but here they are simply very bad. And the fact that it's not federated is the main failure of this thing, even before any issues of privacy. Of course to those who don't care about neither federation nor privacy this can look useful.

Last edited by shmerl; 2014-02-27 at 22:38.
 

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to shmerl For This Useful Post:
mikecomputing's Avatar
Posts: 3,397 | Thanked: 4,746 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Gothenburg in Sweden
#58
Originally Posted by shmerl View Post
@cvp: Telegram is not XMPP compliant as far as I understand, so forget about OpenFire. And their server is not open source, so you can't run your own. Another centralized service in the age of mass surveillance doesn't sound like something to be excited about at all.

People can use XMPP instead of all these broken attempts to reinvent the wheel. I guess some people never learn.
I agree reinvent sucks. If we only talk about textchat XMPP is okey. But when I talk about Instant messanging I take for granten we are modern people who not just want some crap replacement for SMS like whatsup is. Instead I want textchat, voip and possible cam. And also usable at work. Something like skype but better and open.

So there XMPP does not suit well atm. XML itself sucks bigtime and there is no security in XMPP protocol as default. Another thing is voip/camera is not standarnized in those "xmpp/jabberclients", filesharing etc is still no part of the standard that means also those jabber clients reinvent those parts in different way and incompability real PITA

So again there need to be something that has all of above not only just text chat function like XMPP or for that matter whatsthrowup.

tox can be something doing all that except it seems protocol is very alpha atm. and documentation is very limited. So lets see...
__________________
Go librem

telegram @mike7b4
mastodon.social @mike7b4

Last edited by mikecomputing; 2014-02-27 at 21:15.
 

The Following User Says Thank You to mikecomputing For This Useful Post:
Posts: 1,291 | Thanked: 2,259 times | Joined on May 2011
#59
VoIP is standardized (Jingle), support is pretty erratic though. I agree, XMPP has a lot of room for improvement. If anyone can come up with better and open protocol for a federated network it would be awesome.

I'll take a look at Tox, I didn't check it so far. Does it handle federation? Is some reference client / server code open and etc?

UPDATE: Ah, it looks like it's even more distributed than XMPP - it's supposed to be P2P. So it uses no servers at all?

Last edited by shmerl; 2014-02-27 at 22:49.
 

The Following User Says Thank You to shmerl For This Useful Post:
Posts: 301 | Thanked: 496 times | Joined on Sep 2010
#60
Originally Posted by shmerl View Post
VoIP is standardized (Jingle), support is pretty erratic though. I agree, XMPP has a lot of room for improvement. If anyone can come up with better and open protocol for a federated network it would be awesome.

I'll take a look at Tox, I didn't check it so far. Does it handle federation? Is some reference client / server code open and etc?

UPDATE: Ah, it looks like it's even more distributed than XMPP - it's supposed to be P2P. So it uses no servers at all?
Even tox.im is going to require some servers. If not for anything else, then for a tracker to know who is where, just like for data in bittorrent. This kind of phonebook functionality is still required.
XMPP goes past the phonebook requirement by using DNS service records for advertising the server used in the users jabber ID domain, but tox would not have that luxury as P2P users usually do not have access to DNS. (Or it would be too complicated with dyndns to bother.)

In addition if there is no separate common meeting ground outside, with P2P telecom ISP firewalls would kill the connections for inbound traffic (for too many people to be practical). There simply has to be some kind of server somewhere when the client side IP addresses and names keep changing continuously.

I'm all for XMPP, but then again people have to trust the maintainers of those servers, and currently OTR is too damn clunky to be used in daily communications.

Last edited by Manatus; 2014-02-27 at 23:20.
 

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Manatus For This Useful Post:
Reply

Tags
soviet spyware

Thread Tools

 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:53.