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| The Following User Says Thank You to bocaJ For This Useful Post: | ||
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2009-08-29
, 07:07
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Posts: 1,028 |
Thanked: 578 times |
Joined on Mar 2009
@ Chicago
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#2
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Free speech comes in to play in your post, how?
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2009-08-29
, 07:43
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Posts: 224 |
Thanked: 107 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
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#3
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Originally Posted by JayOnThaBeat
Free speech per se, does not. I was just trying to avoid confusion with asking how free it might be as in price.
Free speech comes in to play in your post, how?
Given that "free" has two meanings, it is common to refer to something as "Free as in speech" vs. being "Free as in beer".
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2009-08-29
, 08:30
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Posts: 755 |
Thanked: 406 times |
Joined on Feb 2008
@ UK
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#4
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For Jay: The Free Software Definition
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2009-08-29
, 09:31
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Posts: 106 |
Thanked: 68 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
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#5
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Nah Maemo is a free and wonderful paradise 
That being said I wonder if the phone will get a ovi store, not as the only option to get apps but maybe an option for developers to charge for there apps (not everything has to be free).
That being said I wonder if the phone will get a ovi store, not as the only option to get apps but maybe an option for developers to charge for there apps (not everything has to be free).
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2009-08-29
, 11:11
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Posts: 696 |
Thanked: 1,012 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ Asturies, Spain
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#6
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Originally Posted by bocaJ
I'm a fan too.
So I've been a fan of the Nokia Nxx0 series for a while now, and I truly have admired how much they have aimed to have a free system. Entering the phone market, however, I'm wondering how much that will hold true.
Some people in the free software world is looking in stupid (IMHO) details about OGG (Vorbis and Theora), or about Nokia and patents.
They fail to see that this move from Nokia means.
Nokia is going to sell millions of phones with a real GNU/Linux OS (yes, not "castrated" ones like Android, LIMO, etc.).
Of course, it won't be completely open. There will be stuff that Nokia decides maintain closed-source, but they are using more free software in this version than never (Tracker, Clutter, Pulseaduio, upstart, etc.).
Nokia is working in these projects, yes for its own interest, but they are contributing back, writing free drivers for the Kernel, etc. This is a huge win for free software.
In next versions they will use more free software yet, like Ofono and ConnMan.
I am not saying that Nokia is perfect. But in this world is the best we have if you want to use a quality device.
If you just want a completely free device, there's Openmoko or Pandora.
How much access will I have to choose which OS is installed? I know that on previous MIDs that Nokia has released, it has been fairly straightforward to change the OS - http://wiki.maemo.org/Alternative_operating_systems. will that be the case here?
Of course, this isn't supported by Nokia. But I don't see any problem why that can't be done like until now.
Probably will be necessary some work to do run everything correctly.
I'm not really an expert in drivers and closed-source stuff, so others could point you that problems will be or not.
Since the hardware is similar enough, would I just be able to use Android and start going through the T-mobile app store (certainly my milage would vary from app to app, but you get the idea). Would OS' other then Maemo 5 be able to access the cell radio?
There could be that the only involved parts are Pulseaudio, Telepathy and some dbus calls (or perhaps it's completely closed). With the information we have until now it isnt possible to say.
About the T-mobile store, I imagine it will depend on T-mobile and Android if it's where you want it works.
For that matter, if I'm developing new apps, or say the Gizmo team is porting porting Gizmo5 to Maemo5, will they be able to access EDGE, 3g and wi-fi, or will their be some hypervisor that says no? (or will the libraries necessary to develop such applications be so obscure that the guess and check involved in getting such an app working would be cost prohibitive?) Similarly, some folks have complained about the lack of out of the box support for SyncML - if the OS sees the radio as any other device this should be straight forward to code, right? If not though, SyncML might only work over wi-fi, until Nokia or a trusted partner says otherwise. If I want to set up an app for wi-fi tethering, even if my ISP says "no" is anything built in to honor the ISP over the Customer?
The applications will connect through the available connection in that moment. This is a guess mine.
But there could be some deals with ISPs about this, until the N900 isn't released we won't know. Anyway, I imagine you can to install a free-ISP image to the n900 (directly from Nokia), similar to its s60 phones right now (at least in Europe, I don't know about the US).
SyncML: People complain about don't support through wifi, at least in the specs, just USB and Blueetooth.
In my opinion it will be possible to use through wifi, at least why it will be possible synchronize with Ovi, and Ovi uses SyncML.
In the case it doesn't support another place through wifi, this could be coded for a 3rd party developer easily. SyncML is a free format, and the Calendar and Contacts have its own API.
Wifi-tethering: It could not be supported out of the box, but I don't see any reason why a 3rd party developer can't code this.
More info here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30916
Mostly, I mean these questions as an honest inquiry as to what the devise will offer. I will also admit a little skepticism after S60 was locked down and folks had to go through an incredibly arduous procedure to self-sign apps. I hope I'm worrying about nothing, and I'm wondering if anyone has either speculation or insider knowledge they can offer.
| The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to yerga For This Useful Post: | ||
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2009-08-29
, 19:04
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Posts: 1,028 |
Thanked: 578 times |
Joined on Mar 2009
@ Chicago
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#7
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Originally Posted by bocaJ
Free speech per se, does not. I was just trying to avoid confusion with asking how free it might be as in price.
Given that "free" has two meanings, it is common to refer to something as "Free as in speech" vs. being "Free as in beer".
Originally Posted by codeMonkey
Yes, it was late. I took your thread title too literally and became confused.
For Jay: The Free Software Definition
Fre as in Fremantle........
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2009-09-08
, 13:06
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Posts: 25 |
Thanked: 30 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ Western Europe
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#8
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Originally Posted by yerga
As you have stated, Nokia has done a lot of work to remove some of these barriers. As I understand it, one of the bigger problems in the past was the closed Wifi driver. This seems to be solved now:
Of course, this isn't supported by Nokia. But I don't see any problem why that can't be done like until now.
Probably will be necessary some work to do run everything correctly.
I'm not really an expert in drivers and closed-source stuff, so others could point you that problems will be or not.
http://osdir.com/ml/linux-wireless/2.../msg01283.html
The GSM modem appears to be accessed using the phonet driver which is included in the mainline kernel (http://lwn.net/Articles/303274/). From http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/ofono.txt:
Aug 31 07:33:24 <PaulFertser> akiniemi: what will it use for telephony then?
Aug 31 07:36:37 <akiniemi> PaulFertser: proprietary stack, built on
top of PhoNet
Aug 31 07:37:04 <akiniemi> But oFono is what we're expecting to use in
the future. We just haven't been able to say it aloud.
The GPS, audio, camera and graphics subsystems are still question marks to me. Audio seems likely to be open, whereas open 3D graphics seem very unlikely. Also the battery charging protocol (BME), seems to stay closed, as in the n8x0 devices. I don't own a Nokia tablet yet though, so I can't say how one goes about charging one of those once you have installed a free (i.e. 'libre') operating system. Perhaps I have just misunderstood the purpose BME serves.
| The Following User Says Thank You to joenix For This Useful Post: | ||
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2009-09-08
, 13:20
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Posts: 1,671 |
Thanked: 11,478 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
@ Warsaw, Poland
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#9
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Originally Posted by joenix
I'll repeat here what has been said other places: Nokia doesn't seem to mind Nokia software distributed to Nokia tablets (http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Community...e_distribution - I'm not sure if it extends to N900 too but..).
The GPS, audio, camera and graphics subsystems are still question marks to me. Audio seems likely to be open, whereas open 3D graphics seem very unlikely. Also the battery charging protocol (BME), seems to stay closed, as in the n8x0 devices. I don't own a Nokia tablet yet though, so I can't say how one goes about charging one of those once you have installed a free (i.e. 'libre') operating system. Perhaps I have just misunderstood the purpose BME serves.
This means that a libre system can download the needed blobs if it runs on a Nokia tablet and perhaps through a mechanism at maemo.org create 'restricted' images.
While this might not be acceptable for some (like requiring it should all be open source), it means you can still use your hardware to full extent even if the remaining 99% of your rootfs is libre. This is a lot better than 'no, you can't get X blob or use it'.
__________________
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
| The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Stskeeps For This Useful Post: | ||
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2009-09-08
, 19:35
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Posts: 25 |
Thanked: 30 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ Western Europe
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#10
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Originally Posted by Stskeeps
This allows you to use your hardware to the full extent, as long as you stick to the same kernel version. While I applaud the big step forward Nokia has made, closed drivers are an obstacle nonetheless.
While this might not be acceptable for some (like requiring it should all be open source), it means you can still use your hardware to full extent even if the remaining 99% of your rootfs is libre. This is a lot better than 'no, you can't get X blob or use it'.
Here's hoping for an open N900.
How much access will I have to choose which OS is installed? I know that on previous MIDs that Nokia has released, it has been fairly straightforward to change the OS - http://wiki.maemo.org/Alternative_operating_systems. will that be the case here? Since the hardware is similar enough, would I just be able to use Android and start going through the T-mobile app store (certainly my milage would vary from app to app, but you get the idea). Would OS' other then Maemo 5 be able to access the cell radio?
For that matter, if I'm developing new apps, or say the Gizmo team is porting porting Gizmo5 to Maemo5, will they be able to access EDGE, 3g and wi-fi, or will their be some hypervisor that says no? (or will the libraries necessary to develop such applications be so obscure that the guess and check involved in getting such an app working would be cost prohibitive?) Similarly, some folks have complained about the lack of out of the box support for SyncML - if the OS sees the radio as any other device this should be straight forward to code, right? If not though, SyncML might only work over wi-fi, until Nokia or a trusted partner says otherwise. If I want to set up an app for wi-fi tethering, even if my ISP says "no" is anything built in to honor the ISP over the Customer?
Mostly, I mean these questions as an honest inquiry as to what the devise will offer. I will also admit a little skepticism after S60 was locked down and folks had to go through an incredibly arduous procedure to self-sign apps. I hope I'm worrying about nothing, and I'm wondering if anyone has either speculation or insider knowledge they can offer.