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Posts: 2,186 | Thanked: 12,323 times | Joined on Mar 2010 @ SOL 3
#1
There often are questions like
Code:
which carrier in USA will work with the Neo900?
It's not possible to answer this question comprehensively for every carrier in every country.
Usually you visit pages like http://www.att.com/shop/wireless/byop.html and compare the bands to what the planned P*S8 modems in Neo900 can do.
When all you can find is fuzzy stuff like http://support.sasktel.com/app/answe...ail/a_id/15950 then please consider this
Or you look up in this thread if somebody else already did that for you. ;-)
Of course answering here when you found reliable info (ideally with URL reference) will also be appreciated

cheers
jOERG

================================================== ==========================
adding a quick lookup table here, summarizing the results from below. See post #2 for details on modem capabilities and excellent post #3 for an evaluation summary

Code:
Region;   Carrier;   list of modems(service, restrictions);   ## remarks
USA         AT&T:  PLS8-US(4G, 3G),  PHS8-P/PHS8-J/PHS8-K/PHS8-US/PHS8-USA(3G)  
                            ##  PLS8-E(urope) is NOT suited for USA
Poland        all:     PLS8-E(4G,3G,2G), PHS8-P/J/K/E(3G,2G)
Note: we might limit the number of modems offered, to streamline production. So sub-types like PHS8-E / PHS8-US with reduced featureset may not be available when we also offer PHS8-P.

first spreadsheet version: http://neo900.org/stuff/bands-poland-new.ods

essential info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMTS_frequency_bands
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTE_frequency_bands
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LTE_networks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UMTS_networks
For CDMA don't miss our PXS8 option and also see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1473501

please note: we accept no liability for correctness of any data listed in this thread, or the conclusions therefrom! It's up to you to make sure that the carrier of your choice actually works with the modem of your choice. Modem data as provided by Cinterion/Gemalto and subject to change: http://neo900.org/faq#networks
NOTE: All technical specifications, incl modem component, subject to change for Neo900 during development!

Last edited by joerg_rw; 2015-06-13 at 21:49.
 

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#2
Carrier provided data:
AT&T BYOP (bring your own phone): http://www.att.com/shop/wireless/byop.html
Check compatibility
Refer to the manufacturer's website to verify your unlocked device works with a SIM card on an AT&T GSM network frequency:

• 3G UMTS network 850/1900MHz bands
• 4G LTE network AWS / 700 / 850 / 1900MHz bands
Phones from SprintŪ are not compatible at this time.

Modem compatibility breakdown:
PLS8 http://m2m.gemalto.com/tl_files/cint...t_PLS8_web.pdf
For now it's unclear if there will be a non-economy global PLS8 version available, that merges the capabilities of the -E and -US variant.

recommended version for LTE in Europe and some other countries, supports EU-3G and EU-2G but limited roaming capabilities, not even GSM quadband, so no roaming to e.g. USA
> PLS8-E:
Quad Band LTE: 800/900/1800/2600 MHz, FDD-Band (20,8,3,7)
Tri Band UMTS (WCDMA): 900/1800/2100 MHz, FDD-Band (8,3,1)
Dual Band GSM/GPRS/EDGE: 900/1800 MHz
LTE: NOT COMPATIBLE
UMTS: NOT COMPATIBLE
2G: unclear if AT&T supports any GSM, anyway the PLS8-E does not support the usual US-GSM 850/1900 bands.


recommended version for LTE in USA and some other countries, supports some US-3G and global-2G but limited roaming capabilities
> PLS8-US
Quad Band LTE: 700/850/AWS(1700/2100)/1900 MHz, FDD-Band (17,5,4,2)
Tri Band UMTS (WCDMA): 850/AWS(1700/2100)/1900 MHz, FDD-Band (5,4,2)
Quad Band GSM/GRPS/EDGE: 850/900/1800/1900 MHz
4G LTE network AWS (OK) / 700(OK) / 850 (OK) / 1900MHz(OK) bands
3G UMTS network 850/1900MHz(OK) bands

2G: unclear if AT&T supports any GSM. PLS8-US supports US bands 850/1900


PHS8 http://m2m.gemalto.com/tl_files/cint...t_PHS8_web.pdf
recommended version for "global" 3G, no LTE, supports global-2G. The -P variant supports analog audio which we don't need. Found no diff between -J and -K variant so far.
> PHS8-P / PHS8-J / PHS8-K:
Five Bands UMTS/HSPA+ (WCDMA /FDD) (850/800, 900, 1900 and 2100 MHz),
Quad-Band GSM (850/900/1800/1900 MHz)
4G LTE network Not Applicable
3G UMTS network 850/1900MHz(OK) bands
2G: unclear if AT&T supports any GSM. PHS8-P/J/K supports US bands 850/1900

low cost variant of PHS8 - we probably won't offer this variant
> PHS8-US / PHS8-USA:
Dual Band UMTS/HSPA+ (850, 1900 MHz),
Dual-Band GSM (850/1900 MHz)
4G LTE network Not Applicable
3G UMTS network 850/1900MHz(OK) bands
2G: unclear if AT&T supports any GSM. PHS8-US supports US bands 850/1900

low cost variant of PHS8 - we probably won't offer this variant
> PHS8-E:
Dual Band UMTS/HSPA+ (900/2100 MHz),
Dual-Band GSM (900/1800 MHz)
4G LTE network Not Applicable
3G UMTS network NOT COMPATIBLE
2G: unclear if AT&T supports any GSM. PHS8-E has NO SUPPORT for US bands 850/1900


PXS8 http://m2m.gemalto.com/tl_files/cint...t_PXS8_web.pdf
recommended version for "global" 3G, no LTE, supports global-2G and CDMA2000 / EV-DO Rev. A thus extended roaming capabilities
> PXS8
> Five-Bands UMTS/HSPA+ (WCDMA /FDD)
(800/850/900/1900/2100 MHz)
UMTS / HSPA+, 3GPP release 6 / 7
Rx-Diversity with Equalizer (Type 3i)
Enhanced F-DPCH, DTX, DRX, SCH-IC
> Quad-Band GSM (850/900/1800/1900 MHz)
GSM / GPRS / EDGE, 3GPP release 99 / 4
Improved SAIC
> Triple Band CDMA2000, Bands: BC0/BC1 &
BC10 subclass 2+3 (800/1900MHz), 3GPP2: 1xAdvanced,
EV-DO Rev. A, QLIC, Rx-Diversity, Equalizer
4G LTE network Not Applicable
3G UMTS network 850/1900MHz(OK) bands
2G: unclear if AT&T supports any GSM. PXS8-US supports US bands 850/1900

Last edited by joerg_rw; 2014-05-01 at 13:35.
 

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#3
There are 2 major carriers in the US built on GSM technology: AT&T and T-Mobile USA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellula..._Frequency_Use

The "basic" frequencies are as follows:

GSM (2G)
AT&T - 1900, and 850 in some markets
T-Mobile - 1900

3G & 4G
AT&T - 1900, and 850 in some markets
T-Mobile - AWS (1700/2100), which is different from the 2100 band used in Europe; 1900 in addition to/instead of AWS in some markets

It is safest to assume that the bands cited above are the "baseline" assumptions of what should work for each carrier. But, if you look at the chart (and at other resources), it gets more complicated than that:

- There are some limited roaming agreements in place that allow T-Mobile customers roaming privileges (for voice only) on AT&T's 850 network in some places where T-mobile has no coverage

- AT&T does not have 850 available in all markets. But you'll ideally want a module with both 850 and 1900, since AT&T will "load-balance" between the two where they have both bands, to help manage capacity

- In general, T-Mobile seems to be moving it's 4G service to it's AWS frequencies while repurposing the 1900 band as primarily 3G. Or else, build new 3G coverage either via AWS or 1900, but not both. You already see T-Mobile 3G on the 1900 band in a lot of markets, but it is certainly not universal. So, if you are a T-mobile subscriber, you might still be able to get 3G with the PHS8 variants (except for PHS8-E) if you are in an area where they have added 3G to the 1900 band, but there are no guarantees.

- AT&T and T-Mobile seem to be developing LTE on the 700 band as well

- In theory, you may be able to use the variant that includes CMDA (PXS8) with Verizon (the largest CDMA carrier in the US). But Verizon, as of right now, does not provide SIM cards for unlocked phones for the purposes of accessing it's CDMA network.

So, net, it's really complicated. No variant will perfectly meet every need, especially if you want to use high speed data both in the US and abroad.

Last edited by klinglerware; 2014-04-28 at 16:33.
 

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#4
For US customers, PLS8-US seems to be the safest choice for 4G coverage in the US, as long as you don't mind EDGE speeds when roaming outside North America and maxing out at UMTS speeds where you don't have 4G coverage in the US.

PHS8-P / PHS8-J / PHS8-K seem to be the best compromise for global travelers, as long as you don't mind lack of 4G

PHS8-E and PHS8-US seem to be less flexible than the other PHS8 variants, so I wonder what the advantages are with using these modules.
 

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#5
Originally Posted by klinglerware View Post
PHS8-E and PHS8-US seem to be less flexible than the other PHS8 variants, so I wonder what the advantages are with using these modules.
Price

/jOERG
 

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#6
Originally Posted by joerg_rw View Post
Price

/jOERG
Ha ha, I did not think of the obvious.
 

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#7
Poland

Every major operator (Plus, Orange, T-Mobile, Play, Cyfrowy Polsat) uses GSM900, GSM1800, UTMS900, UMTS2100 and FDD LTE1800 bands (the last one isn't ready right now on some networks, but by the time Neo900 is out it should be operational everywhere). In next years FDD LTE800 should also be available, but AFAIK it's not known yet which operators will win the permissions for needed frequencies.

Therefore, the best options for Neo900 user from Poland are:
  • PLS8-E - works at every band mentioned above, including LTE1800 and LTE800
  • PHS8-E - works at every non-LTE band (obviously, as it doesn't support LTE )
  • PHS8-P/J/K - the same as PHS8-E
  • PXS8 - the same as PHS8-E and PHS8-P/J/K, with additional CDMA2000 support on 800/1900MHz. While there are some CDMA networks like Centertel, I'm not aware of any consumer-grade CDMA service in Poland, so PXS8 is probably not worth it when one wants to use Neo900 mostly in Poland.


The non-optimal, but somehow working option:
  • PLS8-US - despite general support for UMTS and LTE, it supports only GSM900 and GSM1800 from bands used in Poland, so it's limited to 2G there

Not working at all:
  • PHS8-US/USA

Supplement:
Some people may be interested in support for Aero2 BDI (free internet service). Aero2 BDI operates on UMTS900 and (soon?) TDD LTE2600. While UMTS900 is supported by PLS8-E, PHS8-E, PHS8-P/J/K and PXS8, TDD LTE2600 is not supported by any offered variant (PLS8 supports only FDD bands). So, Aero2 BDI should work on Neo900, but not on its LTE network that's currently in development (so just like almost any device out there, as TDD LTE2600 is used almost nowhere ).

Main source: https://www.uke.gov.pl/pozwolenia-ra...oraz-cdma-4145 - however, lists here contain all permissions for operating BTSes, so some of them might not be operational yet (or maybe even at all). While for GSM/UMTS it's doesn't seem to be problem, for LTE it is, as only small part of allowed stations are actually in use and there's a lot of inter-roaming between companies and networks, so I tried to validate it all with press releases and news notes about LTE deployments.

ODS source for table: http://neo900.org/stuff/bands-poland.ods
Attached Images
 
__________________
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Long term Openmoko supporter. Owner of two Neo Freerunners and two N900s (without USB).
Future owner of the Neo900

Last edited by dos1; 2014-05-01 at 14:44.
 

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#8
in Malaysia and Indonesia, maximum only for 3G, whilst 4G need to be supported by another modem
 

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#9
Australian Bands:

2G

2G, other wise known as GSM, is standard on almost all phones (except CDMA phones in the USA). Most new phones come with quad band GSM support. A quad band GSM phone supports 850, 900, 1800, and 1900MHz.

2G is old technology and provides a fall back position when 3G coverage is unavailable.

Australian 2G bands:

900Mhz (Telstra, Optus & Vodafone)
1800Mhz (Telstra, Optus & Vodafone)
3G

There are several 3G networks operating in Australia. 3G frequencies are usually specified as UMTS/HSDPA or WCDMA frequencies on the mobile phone specifications.

Australian 3G bands:

850MHz (Telstra, Vodafone) – Exclusive 3G band
900MHz (Optus, Vodafone) – available in most metro areas on Optus, with both Optus and Vodafone re-farming the 2G 900 spectrum in regional and rural areas
2100MHz (Telstra, Optus, Vodafone) – Exclusive 3G band
4G

Australia is currently using these LTE bands (LTE bandmask in brackets):

2100Mhz (B1) FDD (0000000000000001) – Telstra (3G spectrum)
1800Mhz (B3) FDD (0000000000000004) – Telstra, Optus, Vodafone
900Mhz (B8) FDD (0000000000000080) – Telstra, Vodafone?, Optus (utilises spectrum previously used by 2G)
2300Mhz (B40) TDD (0000008000000000) – Optus (Vivid wireless spectrum)
To follow late 2014:

2600Mhz (B7) FDD (0000000000000040) – Telstra, Optus, TPG?
700Mhz (B28) FDD (0000000008000000) – Telstra, Optus
LTE (Long Term Evolution)/ 4G – more information

Telstra, Optus and Vodafone sell dual mode LTE/ HSPA+ mobile broadband devices that operate seamlessly across 2100Mhz, 1800MHz, 900Mhz and 850MHz spectrum bands, providing customers with 4G(LTE) data where it is available and then seamless switchover to the 3G HSPA technology in other areas. Voice is currently 3G only

In April(2011) Vodafone announced it will replace 8000 2G and 3G base stations with equipment which can be switched to LTE "at the flick of a switch".

In September 2012, Optus announced the activation of its 1800 MHz 4G LTE service in Sydney, Melbourne, Perth and Newcastle. 1800 4G was first trialled in Newcastle (mid 2012). Brisbane and the GoldCoast 4G was activated on 31st October 2012 and Adelaide, just in time for Christmas.

4G Band Plans

Note: During 2013, Telstra Vodafone and Optus by arrangement, swapped 1800Mhz spectrum allocations to provide each with 2 x 20Mhz of contiguous spectrum.

Telstra 1800MHz, 2100Mhz and 900MHz FDD-LTE (see below)

The 1800 service is currently rolled out with 10, 15 and 20MHz carriers. Operating frequencies are as follows:

Most areas in Australia including regional Victoria 4G have carriers with up to 15MHz bandwidth:

Tower Tx: 1805-1820MHz
Tower Rx: 1710-1725MHz
New South Wales and Metro Melbourne & Geelong have carriers with up to 10MHz bandwidth:

Tower Tx: 1805-1815MHz
Tower Rx: 1710-1720MHz
Telstra indicates it will roll-out out 900MHz LTE in mid 2013 to increase coverage depth. This will be a re-farm of 2G 900 spectrum. A 5Mhz bandwidth LTE carrier is the most likely solution. Ref. It will deploy 900/1800 carrier aggregation.

Optus 1800 (FDD-LTE) + 2300 MHz (TDD-LTE)

The 2300 MHz Band 40 Optus spectrum was obtained courtesy of the Vivid Wireless acquisition. It provides up to 98MHz bandwidth in Perth, Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, Canberra and Adelaide. Canberra may be one of the first 2300 4G locales with a 3 x 20Mhz channel roll-out, sometime in 2013. It is called 4G Plus by Optus.

ref1, ref2, ref3. Excellent Optus 4G band allocation and explanation here

The Optus 1800MHz FDD-LTE service currently supports up to 20MHz of duplex bandwidth.

10Mhz carrier

Transmission Downlink: 1840MHz – 1850MHz
Transmission Uplink: 1745MHz – 1755MHz
The Optus 2300 TDD-LTE service provides up to 98MHz of continuous spectrum:

Optus have plans to convert the 2300MHz band into a TDD-LTE service. TDD differs from normal FDD-LTE services by using only one frequency band to serve as both an upload and download channel. This means that 98MHz of spectrum must be shared between both upload and download, and while this may offer some benefits in dynamically scaling back upload bandwidth to support higher downloads (or vice versa), this means that we shouldn't be quite as excited about the 98MHz of bandwidth as we might have initially been.

Vodafone 4G

The Vodafone 1800MHz FDD-LTE service currently supports up to 20MHz of duplex bandwidth.

Telstra 3G (NextG)

NextG is Telstra's 3G offering. It operates on the 850 Mhz frequency in all areas (with some busy areas more recently using 2100Mhz for extra capacity). For full NextG support throughout Australia, you should get a phone that supports UMTS 850.

Previously, if you did not use a phone with 850 Mhz 3G support, the Telstra/Three joint network known as 3GIS was available on 2100 Mhz 3G within Metro areas. As of September 2012, the 3GIS network has been shut down, however some 3GIS base stations have been repurposed to the NextG network.

Telstras Network is made up of DC-HSPA+ (42Mbps), HSPA+ (21Mbps) and HSPA (7.2Mbps) towers depending on location. Note: requires confirmation

Tower Rx /Tower Tx
The Telstra 850MHz NextG services operates on one of 2 paired 5 or 10 MHz channels.
ie 830 – 845 MHz (Tower Rx) and 875 – 890 MHz (Tower Tx)

830 – 835 / 875 – 880 MHz – 1 x paired 5Mhz channel
ACMA Centre Frequencies: 832.5Mhz (Tower Rx)/ 877.5Mhz (Tower Tx)
835 – 845 / 880 – 890 MHz – 1 x paired 10Mhz channel
ACMA Centre Frequencies: 840Mhz (Tower Rx)/ 885Mhz (Tower Tx)
2100MHz NextG services ... *** to be completed ***.
Optus 3G – more information

Note: Optus is now licensed for 2100 MHz in a number of rural locations.

The Optus 3g operates on dual frequencies; 900 and 2100 MHz.

Optus 900 Mhz 3G is provided by 're-farming' their national 900 2G band for both 2g and 3G services; predominantly in regional and rural areas, now also available in most metro areas for 3G use. Optus pioneered 3g 're-farming' of 900 2G bandwidth. The Optus WCDMA carrier is centered in the middle of their 8.4 Mhz 900 allocation; providing a single 3G 3.84 Mhz bandwidth WCDMA carrier and 10 x GMSK 200kHz wide GSM channels, on either side of the WCDMA channel. It is a delicate Optus balancing act using scarce 900 bandwidth. ref ACMA pdf ref ACMA pdf More information about 900mhz Optus – Posts by davmel

Optus – Tower Rx /Tower Tx
898.4 – 906.8 / 943.4 – 951.8 MHz, 1 x paired 8.3MHz channel
The Optus 2100 MHz 3G band is predominantly deployed in cities and major regional areas. The ACMA has recently granted Optus, an additional 972 x 2100 MHz licences for regional and rural capacity expansion – ref ACMA ref Optus Media Release

Optus – Tower Rx /Tower Tx
tba
Vodafone 3G

Operates on dual frequencies; 900 and 2100 MHz.

Vodafone are also rolling out a 3G 850 range with aim to have it completed by 2012. See More

Tower Rx /Tower Tx
906.8 – 915 / 951.8 – 960 MHz, 1 x paired 8.3MHz channel
3G Hi-band 1900-2100Mhz
The 3G Hi-band 1900-2100Mhz is used by Optus, Telstra and VHA.

Tower Rx /Tower Tx
1920 – 1980Mhz (tower Rx), 2110 – 2170Mhz (tower Tx) using multiple paired 5Mhz and 10Mhz channels
** to be completed **

Optus and Vodafone resellers (Virgin, TPG, Exetel, etc)
These companies provide 3G services on the 2100 Mhz band in Metro areas and some Regional areas and on 900 Mhz.
Virgin is also providing 4G services on the Optus 1800 Mhz LTE Network

For full 3G support throughout Australia, you should get a phone that supports UMTS 900/2100.

Importing Phones from Overseas

Importing phones from the UK/Europe will likely mean receiving a UMTS 900/2100 phone. Make sure this is suitable for you!

Importing phones from the US will result in either a 850/1900 or 850/1900/2100 or 1700/2100 or 900/1700/2100 UMTS phone (make sure you don't import a CDMA phone). AT&T usually supply 850/1900 models sometimes with the addition of 2100 Mhz. T-Mobile usually supply 1700/2100 models sometimes with the addition of 900. Double check the frequency specifications before importing!

Carriers in Canada also support UMTS 850/1900 along with 1700 Mhz, therefore NextG compatible phones may be sourced there also.


CREDIT goes to:
http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/mobile_phone_frequencies
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#10
to our valued readers: don't worry, I will write a sum-up of the above post#9 (when I find the time to analyze all that and actually can boil it down to a concise coherent conclusion)
For full 3G support throughout Australia, you should get a phone that supports UMTS 900/2100.Importing phones from the UK/Europe will likely mean receiving a UMTS 900/2100 phone. Make sure this is suitable for you!
seems a bit confusing and self-contradictory.

Anyway the above post clearly kicked USA from top position of my personal list of countries with the most terribly messed up cellphone situation.
 

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