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Poll: How much would you be willing to pay for a Neo900 (complete device) with TI DM3730 1GHz/512M-RAM/1GB
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How much would you be willing to pay for a Neo900 (complete device) with TI DM3730 1GHz/512M-RAM/1GB

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joerg_rw's Avatar
Posts: 2,222 | Thanked: 12,651 times | Joined on Mar 2010 @ SOL 3
#1701
Originally Posted by ShadowOfScales View Post
The current asking price for it, if you are going to keep using hardware that was outdated even when this project was in conceptual stages, I believe is not fair.

A 1ghz single core ARM processor, still does not compare to even the 1ghz Pentium 3 in my old IBM Thinkpad R30, due to ARM processors generally having less performance per mhz.
We cannot use bleeding edge hardware since that is simply not available to us. Chip manufacturers deliver to companies like Apple, Samsung, Nokia exclusively. And even when we could get the newest hottest stuff, where from would you, the user, get software that supports your modern platform? Given the TechnicalReferenceManual usually is made of exactly same unobtainium as the chips themselves.
Then look for the basic promise that the Neo900 is going to be binary compatible to N900. How we'd accomplish that for whatever leetest newest SoC is this week's hype? We pondered to go for OMAP5 but opted against it, for exactly that reason.
Finally: why would we build a device that's exactly like any of the currently selling top notch mobile phone hw platforms? What would be the selling point then so you would want to get a Neo900 instead of going for that other mainstream hw platform right away?

Then you please visit http://store.apple.com/de/buy-iphone/iphone5s and then tell me again we are too expensive. I know I'm comparing apples and oranges. But so do you. This is not a mainstream mass product, this is a highly specialized and even customized build of a very small batch of devices.

/j

Last edited by joerg_rw; 2014-01-18 at 15:05.
 

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#1702
Originally Posted by joerg_rw View Post
And even when we could get the newest hottest stuff, where from would you, the user, get software that supports your modern platform? Given the TechnicalReferenceManual usually is made of exactly same unobtainium as the chips themselves.
Then look for the basic promise that the Neo900 is going to be binary compatible to N900. How we'd accomplish that for whatever leetest newest SoC is this week's hype? We pondered to go for OMAP5 but opted against it, for exactly that reason.
Can you please explain a little more about possible problems with migrating to newer SoC, since most of the software is arm(armel/armhf) compatible and most likely you will get required binary blobs from TI.
 
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#1703
@DDark, "hardware" is more than a CPU. It's also audio and video processors, all sorts of radio chips (BT, WiFi, GSM, GPS, FM...), memory managers, memory chips, memory card readers... Most of these need drivers. And for most of the new ones the drivers are awailable only in a binary form and only for a specific platform. Writing Linux drivers requires a detailed knowledge of the chips' internals - in other words a Technical Reference Manual.

Besides, I do not really know if a newer/faster/beter CPU is really binary compatible with an older version, i.e. would a driver/OS component/application built for the older work without issues on the newer or would it need recompiling first. It was the case the last time I did some hardware work but that was in a different century.
 

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#1704
just to add that "binary blobs from TI" are not exactly any option for a free hardware project, for any of the core functionality - even if they were available which I doubt.
 

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#1705
*Sigh* If only I was richer and more skilled. One of my dreams/hopes is to get into the hardware manufacturing, creating as open of hardware as possible. Some day folks, some day.

In the mean time, best I can do is drop very large chunks of my pathetically small (as a not-greatly-paid university student) net worth into projects that are seemingly incarnations of the hope that something like that will be brought into the world. Which I finally just did today for this project. Well, I did the order on the site and submitted the bank transfer request to my bank. I guess I can't claim I'm really done until they get around to processing my request and I get some confirmation that they really got the money out and to the right destination.
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#1706
Originally Posted by DDark View Post
Can you please explain a little more about possible problems with migrating to newer SoC, since most of the software is arm(armel/armhf) compatible and most likely you will get required binary blobs from TI.
TI can take their binary blobs
and shovel them somewhere else.

sheesh,
I feel this way too, sometimes,
after explaining something in as clear a way
as is linguistically possible, like this:

Originally Posted by joerg_rw View Post
We cannot use bleeding edge hardware since that is simply not available to us. Chip manufacturers deliver to companies like Apple, Samsung, Nokia exclusively. And even when we could get the newest hottest stuff, where from would you, the user, get software that supports your modern platform?
/j
Having been there and done that for some of my own inhouse
projects, what joerg says is blindingly simple:

what you want is not available,
to you, to your buddies, not even today,

probably for reasons that have
nothing to do with anything you can possibly do about that fact.
I have been places in HongKong and Singapore where
the vendors will even go so far as to deny the existence
of parts, etc sitting on a display shelf right behind their head,
where the price per quantity is boldly marked.
(For an amusing read go look at the FLASH memory hacking)
They do not want to waste their time on you selling stuff
they will need to have in stock when the deep-pockets
customers come through the door.


These are the guys who support walled gardens:

Not for any personal reasons, but:

They don't like you very much,
simply because you have very little money or market share.
They will not talk to you, they will not deal with you,
they do not even want to acknowledge your existence,
for extremely sound economic and financial reasons.
Even holding a simple one-way conversation with you is an
unforgivable waste of their time.


the newest hottest stuff, where from would you, the user, get software that supports your modern platform?

I do not know how many linux distros you have ever
tried to install, but bear in mind the magic that is something
like sabayon or linux mint is an incredible achievement
in a field overshadowed by the walled gardens of Microsoft etc.

Those late night coffee days of yore------------
when we had to wait a year for the linux code
to catch up with the latest and greatest brand-spanking-new
modem drivers/whatchamallit code/ and other
whizbang new-fangled-gizmo-built-just-for-windows
---------------are NOT OVER YET.

We in the linux universe are still the tail being wagged
by some very big dogs who regard us as fleas, <scratch>.
Just because you can buy it does not mean you can operate it
without seriously crippling software re-coding calendar time.

</rant>
Use the best you can get at the right stage of software support,
is the best that can be done..
Anything else means your grip on reality has more than just a few parity errors,
and you need to go fsck yourself before you hurt someone...
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#1707
Just tried to donate 100 Euros but it keeps saying invalid address and invalid ZIP code. The fields for the address don't match those on my address for the card. Not sure what to do. Sorry if I cocked up the device counter.
 

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#1708
Originally Posted by king Ralphred View Post
Just tried to donate 100 Euros but it keeps saying invalid address and invalid ZIP code. The fields for the address don't match those on my address for the card. Not sure what to do. Sorry if I cocked up the device counter.
I had exactly the same issue when I tried donating and I ended up putting the same data into address fields as they are on my credit card. I tried contacting the given email address, posted in this very thread, and even Joerg_rw himself became interested in the issue, but somehow (I guess due to my impatience and their busyness at the time) I ended up just redoing the order with slightly different address (the old one got cancelled automatically 2 weeks later or so) which resulted in success It would be really great if the webform could accept different addresses for the credit card owner and for the invoice/shipping, as we apparently both suffer issues from the fact that they are being different.

Edit: sorry for oftopic, just wanted to respond about my experience with similar situation

Last edited by misiak; 2014-01-19 at 17:50.
 

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Posts: 2,222 | Thanked: 12,651 times | Joined on Mar 2010 @ SOL 3
#1709
I have no info about and no access to the machinery of the webshop. I only know it's using an external service to verify credit cards.
Please contact GolDeliCo, Nikolaus will take care. Sorry for the inconvenience.

cheers
jOERG
 

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joerg_rw's Avatar
Posts: 2,222 | Thanked: 12,651 times | Joined on Mar 2010 @ SOL 3
#1710
Moved some posts to better location (though I wish I had not to do that, I really don't like to do moderation of any form)

Hint: usually it's better to actually post to another thread than writing "this doesn't belong to this thread"
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