Neo900 - finally a successor of N900 - Page 226 - maemo.org

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	dos1	2014-11-29 , 14:01
	Posts: 257 \| Thanked: 2,053 times \| Joined on Sep 2010 @ Warsaw, Poland	#2251

Short reminder: OHSW 2014 happens today!

YouTube channel with livestreams and recordings: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP_...WsF_2EiG3s6BKA

Agenda: http://ohsw.org/

Neo900 talk is scheduled at 16:05 CET (so in about an hour - there might be some ~15 delay though, as the talks are a bit behind the schedule right now)

Sadly I got sick and couldn't manage to arrive there in person, but we'll do a video conference

[edit] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahPFCFooBv0

__________________
Sebastian Krzyszkowiak - https://dosowisko.net/
Long term Openmoko supporter. Owner of two Neo Freerunners, a few N900s and some others too.
Future owner of the Neo900

Last edited by dos1; 2014-11-29 at 16:58.

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	joerg_rw	2014-12-22 , 09:55
	Posts: 2,222 \| Thanked: 12,651 times \| Joined on Mar 2010 @ SOL 3	#2252

time for bumping this thread :-)
we found 1GB RAM chips and got a 70 to evaluate if they work as expected. See http://neo900.org/stuff/joerg/N9_1GB-RAM/
Yesterday we received proto_V2 schematics rev2 from Golden Delicious Computers, for review and commenting: http://neo900.org/stuff/eaglefiles/p.../2_2014-12-21/
Setting up a webshop for starting risk parts purchase is not exactly an easy task. Lots of details need to get considered, again mostly around legalese and taxes

I'm away for the rest of the week and wish you all a Merry Christmas and already a happy new year

cheers
jOERG

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reinob	2014-12-22 , 12:10
Posts: 1,808 \| Thanked: 4,272 times \| Joined on Feb 2011 @ Germany	#2253

@Joerg,

Thanks a lot for the update! I'm eagerly but patiently waiting for my chance to have a Neo900 WITH 1GB OF RAM!

)))

In my calendar, 2015 is the year of the Neo900

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	joerg_rw	2014-12-22 , 12:38
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Originally Posted by joerg_rw

Yes, all this is what we're pondering right now. Werner checked all other major parts for their risk status. We probably won't be able to do this whole thing in one week, but we can borrow the money from R&D funds for a while to allow this new thing to take the time it needs, while we evaluate the amount it needs in the end and we implement a proper shopping procedure to make sure this is no donation but a regular purchase.

Seems - for risk parts - regular sales from our side (purchase from your POV) introduces all sorts of VAT issues again - like "we don't ship physical goods (yet) so we need to pay German VAT like if we had shipped to Germany" (thanks to immaterial goods like software etc which otherwise we could claim they got sold to abroad even when they are not. German tax laws are a nightmare).
We already changed/'transformed' the "donations" to quite regular credits (see "fineprint *)") quite some time ago. I think it's probably the easiest most feasible path to go for the riskpart fundraiser as well.

Still pondering and evaluating our options. Comments and criticism welcome.

cheers
jOERG

*) With a little help from Google translate, so bear with me for unclear wording in english, it's not binding anyway, the german wording is legally binding though:

The lender guaranteed respecting the Neo900 UG (haftungsbeschraenkt) a loan, repayable with the appearance of the product Neo900. S/He receives 2% interest per month on the loan amount (compound interest is not recompensed). In addition, s/he is added to the wishlist **) for product manufacturing. Interest payments are excluded for parts of the loan exceeding the sale price of devices ordered by the lender, at the time of loan repayment. Applicable amounts less than 100 € are treated as donations without a right to refund, repayment or distribution of any profits.

**) "wishlist" is as good as it gets, without already establishing a sale, according to my tax advisor. No "preorder". Sorry. You know what's the intention though.

which basically means you give a credit to Neo900 UG and you will receive it back at time of purchase of your device (of course we won't transfer money back and forth, we will simply treat the credit refund as down payment for the ordered device, once you place your order. Untl then, it's a credit we owe you)
And another sidenote to avoid confusion: when you gave a 100EUR to GDC and then transferred it, Neo900 UG owes you a 100EUR. There's no issue with the 13(?)% that stayed at GDC during transfer.
[edit 2] for the risk part credit we might have to sligtly modify the applicable "fineprint" - something along the line of "refundable any time. No interest. In case of payback the lender accepts that only the part of credit not used up for component sourcing gets refunded in cash. For the remainder the lender accepts purchasing of the goods from Neo900 UG instead of cash, all applicable taxes and fees apply to such sale"

Last edited by joerg_rw; 2014-12-22 at 14:04.

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	joerg_rw	2014-12-22 , 14:19
	Posts: 2,222 \| Thanked: 12,651 times \| Joined on Mar 2010 @ SOL 3	#2255

secured another risk part: http://neo900.org/stuff/joerg/random..._cameraswitch/ (1000)
/j

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BaronKatz	2014-12-26 , 20:09
Posts: 66 \| Thanked: 27 times \| Joined on Jul 2012 @ San Francisco Bay Area, CA	#2256

Originally Posted by hxka

The foremost cause of lags on N900 is the swapping. Having 4 times as RAM as N900 will eliminate that. The rest is software, having a faster CPU will get diminishing returns of smoothness.

Not since I started using Swappolube. Swapping is completely fine and smoother than any Android phone I have used. I have the Blackberry 10 now and it's A LOT choppier feeling than Maemo.

The problem is that once you try to integrate Facebook, Google, and all the rest of it into the N900, it starts to slow down and lag like crazy. Overclocking helps for a little bit but doesn't help that much. The battery dies too quickly, etc... The N900 works somewhat OK if you don't integrate those things, but that is one of the beauties of Maemo in the first place...

I just really hope that the processor and ram will be enough to get this going, which is why I would love to see some benchmark tests (specifically of an overclocked N900 to the Neo900, because the increase in ram might be a huge help but the processing speed is almost the same). Looking at the Linshof i8 that was supposed to come out but is halted now, I really hope this doesn't happen to the Neo900...

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	pichlo	2014-12-26 , 20:51
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@BaronKatz,
I have an extensive experience with upgrading old hardware and you can trust me when I tell you that doubling the amount of RAM speeds up the machine at least 10x more than doubling the CPU speed. It is all down to having to swap less: even the fastest storage media are 100-1000x slower than even the slowest RAM so avoiding swapping has a tremendous effect. There is little point frying your CPU at 4 GHz if it spends most of the time waiting for thing to move between the RAM and the slow swap medium.

All those things you list (Falsebook, Google etc) boil down to using more RAM. At some point you run out and the machine has to start swapping. On the N900, that point is rather soon due to the small RAM size.

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	dos1	2014-12-28 , 02:03
	Posts: 257 \| Thanked: 2,053 times \| Joined on Sep 2010 @ Warsaw, Poland	#2258

The new progress update is here, check it out!
http://neo900.org/news/xmas-update

Happy New Year everyone!

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	joerg_rw	2014-12-30 , 23:57
	Posts: 2,222 \| Thanked: 12,651 times \| Joined on Mar 2010 @ SOL 3	#2259

This:

Originally Posted by klinglerware

Neo900:

I hope that it succeeds. I myself have donated in hopes of buying two of them.

I have, of course, seen the friction between one of the Neo900 project leads and members of the maemo community. It is concerning, as the Neo900 has good potential in revitalizing interest in maemo. Not only that, based on the experiences of OpenPandora, open-source hardware is not easy to pull off successfully--cooperation would seem more optimal than antagonism, on the face of it.

I think we do have to respect Joerg's wishes if he does not want to cooperate directly with the community. But since many members of our community (including me) are still interested in seeing the Neo900 succeed, we still can support development indirectly: by encouraging development discussion on the board, and by sponsoring coding competitions et al, with categories that also target development that is Neo900 specific. (The same can also be said for Diablo and Jolla).

plus a few other similar statements ask for a clarification:

I never said I "does not want to cooperate directly with the community". I think this very thread is a clear proof that in fact Neo900 team is cooperating with the community in every possible way. I've been asked if Neo900 is a maemo community project (for listing it on some tmo post list of community projects). I explained that Neo900 is not a maemo project at all since maemo is a software and Neo900 is hardware and basically doesn't ship with any particular software. Furthermore Neo900 necessarily is a commercial project since physical hardware cannot get downloaded and shared under a GPL. The Neo900 UG is not involved in software development. No antagonism in that and nothing to feel concerned about.

Neo900 nevertheless is made to run with maemo as OS, for the maemo community (among others, like openmoko community) and the Neo900 crew is actively supporting the great guys of Fremantle Porting Task Force (FPTF) and welcomes everybody (community member or not) to seek for cooperation with FPTF crew and Neo900 team. I also want to ask everybody to please consider participation in FPTF and help with porting maemo.

Happy new year!

jOERG

Last edited by joerg_rw; 2014-12-31 at 00:17.

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klinglerware	2014-12-31 , 04:29
Posts: 459 \| Thanked: 669 times \| Joined on Sep 2007 @ The DMV	#2260

Thanks for the clarification, and for the reminder of the openness of your communication in this thread--you've certainly been much more transparent than OpenPandora was during its troubled beginnings.

My worry has been that some of the spirited community discussion that is off-topic to this thread may have the potential to spill over to negatively impact cooperation between the Neo900 hardware team and those that may want to develop/port the OS and applications.

The strictly-defined hardware goals of the Neo900 aside, I do see some opportunities for the maemo council to encourage development (e.g., coding competition, etc) and interest for the Neo900. Software-side and OS issues tackled for the Neo900 could also benefit the devices running fremantle/harmattan, and vice-versa. I see the effort to reverse engineer fremantle as an example of this sort of cross-polination.

In any case, thanks again for the clarification. As I mentioned in that quote, I am very hopeful about the success of the Neo900 project and the potential it has for injecting some new life into maemo development.