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Crashdamage is offline Crashdamage
2011-09-16 , 18:45
Posts: 670 | Thanked: 747 times | Joined on Aug 2009 @ Kansas City, Missouri, USA
#1
Just wanted to get some thoughts about this. I'm increasingly concerned that MS is actually beginning to get it, that they are putting a workable long-term plan together. Simply put, in the article linked below the point is made that the new Win 8 'Metro' UI will unify the look and development process for desktop Win, tablets and WinPhone. Developers will be able write once and an app will be available in a new MS market for desktops, tablets or phones. Android and Apple are making similar moves to blur the lines between desktop and mobile use.

Think about that for a bit. It means MS will be able to use their near-total domination of hundreds of millions of dekstops as leverage to gain mobile marketshare and influence developers. It strikes me as the smartest thing MS has done since trashing Win9x, maybe ever.

Thing is, how should Linux counter? Is it long past time to think in terms of Gnome vs KDE vs LDXE vs Fluxbox etc? To simplify the end-user experience and start work on a unified UI that will allow Linux developers to write once for all 3 major hardware formats and users to access some sort of unified app repository?

http://m.infoworld.com/d/application...t_s_big_gamble
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wmarone is offline wmarone
2011-09-17 , 00:37
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#2
Originally Posted by Crashdamage View Post
Thing is, how should Linux counter?
Linux will not counter. The question is if someone is willing to use Linux to counter. Microsoft is betting everything on this and banking on their desktop monopoly and name recognition to push them into a position of dominance.

Is it long past time to think in terms of Gnome vs KDE vs LDXE vs Fluxbox etc?
And what, force everyone to a single desktop environment? It doesn't work like that in the slightest.

To simplify the end-user experience and start work on a unified UI that will allow Linux developers to write once for all 3 major hardware formats and users to access some sort of unified app repository?
This seems to be a common thread for users coming from Windows/OS X who are baffled at the notion that an OS can exist with multiple replacements for the same part that all operate differently, and grows without a single company at the helm deciding how it grows. And the very nature under which most Open Source software is under encourages such diverse development. Short of snatching the rights out from under them you can't corral people and force them down the One True Path (which doesn't exist.)
 

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Zoxir is offline Zoxir
2011-09-17 , 00:45
Posts: 273 | Thanked: 463 times | Joined on May 2011 @ Athens
#3
Microsoft is sure trying to piss on it's desktop users in order to gain tablet and smartphone users. The really mouse hostile metro UI is not that well thought IMO, example if you're on IE10 one metro and try to install silverlight it will go back to legacy UI since Metro wont support plugins (yes not even adblock) then after you've finished browsing in the page you needed the plugin it will return to metro again. Not what I would call a plesant experience.
 
wmarone is offline wmarone
2011-09-17 , 01:41
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#4
Originally Posted by Zoxir View Post
since Metro wont support plugins (yes not even adblock)
Considering things like noscript and adblock+ in Firefox aren't plugins but extensions (which work on a fundamentally different level) I don't foresee Metro hindering them.
 

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jo21 is offline jo21
2011-09-17 , 02:19
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#5
i think it will fail.

it looks as atrocious as gnome 3 really
 
tuxsavvy is offline tuxsavvy
2011-09-17 , 02:33
Posts: 502 | Thanked: 366 times | Joined on Jun 2010 @ /dev/null
#6
I couldn't see how trashing win9x was the smartest thing, it was that very decision when migrating onto NT kernel that I was really unhappy with the lack of CLI tools. It was also where if the GUI just died the whole OS would roll over on its side and make you weep. Sure there's recovery console which is provided as an installable option through command line but it just shows how microsoft sees CLI.

For every other part I agree with what wmarone's initial post.
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wmarone is offline wmarone
2011-09-17 , 03:10
Posts: 1,746 | Thanked: 2,100 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#7
Originally Posted by tuxsavvy View Post
I couldn't see how trashing win9x was the smartest thing, it was that very decision when migrating onto NT kernel that I was really unhappy with the lack of CLI tools.
Microsoft neglected CLI tools for ages, but on the NT kernel they at least had a minimal POSIX environment. Considering Windows, the move to the NT kernel was probably one of the better jumps they ever made (the 9X kernel was a disaster of a hack.)

It was also where if the GUI just died the whole OS would roll over on its side and make you weep. Sure there's recovery console which is provided as an installable option through command line but it just shows how microsoft sees CLI.
9X lacked memory protection, so a single app could take down the system. NT at least had to die seriously hard to go down completely.
 

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Laughing_Man is offline Laughing_Man
2011-09-17 , 06:39
Posts: 49 | Thanked: 35 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#8
Originally Posted by Zoxir View Post
Microsoft is sure trying to piss on it's desktop users in order to gain tablet and smartphone users. The really mouse hostile metro UI is not that well thought IMO, example if you're on IE10 one metro and try to install silverlight it will go back to legacy UI since Metro wont support plugins (yes not even adblock) then after you've finished browsing in the page you needed the plugin it will return to metro again. Not what I would call a plesant experience.
Care to explain why they are trying to piss on desktop's users? Metro can be disabled, and run in mouse friendly Aero mode. And on a side note, I found the ribbon interface on the windows explorer fantastic. I really liked to see more functionality on screen.
 

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Crashdamage is offline Crashdamage
2011-09-17 , 11:52
Posts: 670 | Thanked: 747 times | Joined on Aug 2009 @ Kansas City, Missouri, USA
#9
Originally Posted by wmarone View Post
Linux will not counter. The question is if someone is willing to use Linux to counter.
Well, I suppose that's a better way of putting what I meant.

Microsoft is betting everything on this and banking on their desktop monopoly and name recognition to push them into a position of dominance.
And I think it's a smart move that may work.

And what, force everyone to a single desktop environment? It doesn't work like that in the slightest.
I know and never suggested forcing anyone to do anything. I'm talking more options, more possibilities.

This seems to be a common thread for users coming from Windows/OS X who are baffled at the notion that an OS can exist with multiple replacements for the same part that all operate differently, and grows without a single company at the helm deciding how it grows. And the very nature under which most Open Source software is under encourages such diverse development. Short of snatching the rights out from under them you can't corral people and force them down the One True Path (which doesn't exist.)
Right. As a 10 year Linux-only user I understand all that perfectly well. I'm just speculating on whether a more unified option is needed in today's tech climate for Linux to gain strength.
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Last edited by Crashdamage; 2011-09-17 at 11:56.
 
Crashdamage is offline Crashdamage
2011-09-17 , 12:09
Posts: 670 | Thanked: 747 times | Joined on Aug 2009 @ Kansas City, Missouri, USA
#10
Originally Posted by jo21 View Post
i think it will fail.
Hope you're right.

it looks as atrocious as gnome 3 really
I hate the look too but it's just so stupidly simple I can see a lot of MS users liking it.

For 10 years I've used and loved Fluxbox. But forced to reinstall the OS due to hardware failure I recently changed from CentOS 5.6 to Fedora 15 and decided to give Gnome 3 a serious try. After 2-3 weeks now of tweaking stuff and just getting used to it, Gnome 3 is growing on me. I certainly like it better than Gnome 2 or KDE. I might just keep it.
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