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lma	2011-09-30 , 18:04
Posts: 2,802 \| Thanked: 4,491 times \| Joined on Nov 2007	#161

Originally Posted by attila77

Modern mobile is a different story. The packages are not equal, there is no interdependency on the application side, there is no need for package dependencies (a mobile linux implements an API version, which is nowadays mandated to be backwards compatible), there is a need for per-user custom repositories, or even packages, package metadata is not only a system-related thing but actually plays part in the user interaction, etc, etc, etc.

Only if have you have drank really large doses of the meego-compliance kool aid. Some of us beg to differ and still cling to "historical" system maintenance practices. You know, like the ability to install/uninstall/upgrade software and all its dependencies cleanly, or like having one copy of a particular library even if 30 apps use it.

This is what pretty much every first-gen mobile linux is doing - rehashing desktop formats and technologies and tweaking them to death (maemo -> deb, android -> jar, meego -> rpm, webos -> ipkg). What all of these came to learn is that those are hacks. Hacks that we might be fond of for historical reasons, but still hacks

Fundamentally, a package (rpm/deb/ipkg/opkg/whatever) consists of some blobs that need to be installed somewhere on the filesystem, and some metadata like a manifest, dependencies and perhaps pre/post-install/remove instructions. Why do you think that is a hack and how do you propose to have a sane system without it?

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lma	2011-09-30 , 18:04
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Originally Posted by zimon

But what it comes to apt vs rpm, rpm is technically, security wise and politically better choice.

That makes no sense, apt and rpm are completely orthogonal and sit at different levels of the stack. You can even serve rpms with apt.

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zimon	2011-09-30 , 19:10
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Originally Posted by lma

That makes no sense, apt and rpm are completely orthogonal and sit at different levels of the stack. You can even serve rpms with apt.

True. My mistake/typo. I meant rpm vs deb.

Between apt and yum, zypper is better.

wmarone	2011-10-01 , 04:19
Posts: 1,746 \| Thanked: 2,100 times \| Joined on Sep 2009	#164

Originally Posted by lma

how do you propose to have a sane system without it?

Every solution I've seen people propose so far is basically Apple's .app style, which leaves you with multiple duplicate copies of libraries and wasted memory due to non-shared libraries. You can work around that, but all you do is move the hack out of user space and into the kernel via block de-duplication (though VMWare patented user space memory de-duplication right out from under the Linux kernel...)

This method doesn't benefit Free systems, but it does benefit closed source developers. Considering how hostile to open and Free software the space is, solutions like the above don't surprise me.

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	Texrat	2011-10-01 , 05:00
	Posts: 11,700 \| Thanked: 10,045 times \| Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA	#165

Originally Posted by ste-phan

It's not the name that counts, its the strategy.

Product naming, i.e. branding, IS part of strategy. A name needs to resonate with customers. I always thought MeeGo was too cutesy but tried to make the most of it.

I'm not too thrilled with TiZen, either, mainly because it includes a buzzing consonant which tends to be a little off-putting, especially in the middle of a word.

But we'll see.

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	ArnimS	2011-10-01 , 12:09
	Posts: 1,107 \| Thanked: 720 times \| Joined on Mar 2007 @ Germany	#166

Originally Posted by Milhouse

No Qt in Tizen. Documentation on transitioning Qt applications will be published in due course, according to Dawn Foster on IRC.

Not good news IMHO - Qt was what made MeeGo interesting. HTML5 as the only development frameworks is going to be a disaster for several years to come, it may (MAY) be the future in several more years, by which time nobody will give a rats @rse about Tizen.

food for thought.. good to see you, old-timer.

i'm buying spare n900 and parts. Aside from these, there are only dumbed-down future-fones visible as far as I can see.

Remember, some people know what they're doing, no people know what everybody's doing.

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zimon	2011-10-01 , 12:35
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As it has been said, (if) Tizen is open, so Qt (and *sigh* QML) will end up to Tizen anyway if there is a community or person to do it. Officially companies using Tizen of course won't support or provide it then unless they make an exception.

RFS-81	2011-10-01 , 12:57
Posts: 207 \| Thanked: 154 times \| Joined on Nov 2009	#168

So, will this be the Last Great Thing, or just another episode in series of things to be abandoned for something better after a year?
From where does the need to get something finished come? For whom is this important enough to not throw away if it doesn't seem to fly at first?

larux	2011-10-01 , 13:00
Posts: 112 \| Thanked: 269 times \| Joined on Mar 2007 @ Oulu, Finland	#169

Originally Posted by zimon

As it has been said, (if) Tizen is open, so Qt (and *sigh* QML) will end up to Tizen anyway if there is a community or person to do it. Officially companies using Tizen of course won't support or provide it then unless they make an exception.

Qt and QML are already going to be integrated into Tizen. See this announcement:

Nomovok provides Tizen with integrated Qt

Sep 28, 2011 in News
Nomovok provides Tizen with integrated Qt, both for x86 and ARM architectures. Our proven expertise on native ARM build on the OBS based Tizen build system allows rapid product creation. With Nomovok Tizen build you are able to achieve Qt performance on Tizen while re-using existing Qt apps and benefiting from the existing Qt ecosystem.

http://nomovok.com/news/56/73/Nomovo...-integrated-Qt

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Jedibeeftrix	2011-10-01 , 13:11
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Originally Posted by larux

Qt and QML are already going to be integrated into Tizen. See this announcement:

Nomovok provides Tizen with integrated Qt

Sep 28, 2011 in News
Nomovok provides Tizen with integrated Qt, both for x86 and ARM architectures. Our proven expertise on native ARM build on the OBS based Tizen build system allows rapid product creation. With Nomovok Tizen build you are able to achieve Qt performance on Tizen while re-using existing Qt apps and benefiting from the existing Qt ecosystem.

http://nomovok.com/news/56/73/Nomovo...-integrated-Qt

i'm not sure third party support cuts it.

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