I fail to see any benefits in the no-bezel design with speakers on the back and no front camera. The e-ink keyboard mentioned later, well I can see the benefits, however I do not think this is even remotely possible with this project (let's be realistic, mind the amount of work and prototyping that would be necessary both on hardware and software sides; we should try not to drag Chen down in an impossible route).

Given the OSes planned, the phone is not meant to be used with keyboard only. If you want to give a call, you probably don't need the keyboard, and you probably don't want to use it either. Same goes with checking your email unless you plan on replying. You need to be able to interact with your phone without holding it from the keyboard. The point of the sliding keyboard system is not only to make the phone more compact when it's in your pocket, but also to make the device both a touch device and a hardware keyboard device. Remember the Lauta/N950, since this is the concept that has led to Chen's project.

Apart from the no-bezel form factor, there have been several other "exotic" ideas in the last pages here. Doesn't matter how exciting science fiction ideas of the device are (and I acknowledge that discussing them is interesting as well), I don't think this is going to happen in this project. Look how many barriers have hindered the progress of the last hardware projects here, be it the Jolla 1, the Jolla tablet, the TOHKBD, the Neo900... And none of them meant to reinvent the wheel. This is not good old Nokia with virtually enough resources to maintain small teams beside the main line developing innovating side projects for device or OSes. And heck, even them stopped doing that and killed all their ongoing side projects before the company itself committed suicide.

Chen is offering a device that probably already goes far beyond our expectations (at least it does for me, I did not see the IR, 64 GB, 4 GB RAM and multiple OS coming, and to be honest I had stopped hoping for any keyboard slider with an alternative OS long ago), I'm afraid we should jump on that unique chance and stick to it, not try to make it a Turing prototype with crazy exciting ideas that are too crazy to happen (or to have any real benefit, actually).

Hopefully this phone will be successful enough to encourage Chen continuing in this direction, and we'll see what other surprises are down this road, but let's focus on making this first iteration real rather than dreaming about the device that revolutionizes hardware in the world of smartphones. This is not about innovation and prototyping of hardware concepts here, this is about taking the best of all worlds from what already exists or has existed.

I'm sorry if this post looks arrogant and patronizing, this is absolutely not what I'm trying to do and I am myself enjoying reading ideas, but the whole thread is not very constructive if discussions focus on dream ideas rather than realistic achievable goals for Chen's device.

Well... I have two (2) original N9 from 2011 and no problem with any burns... Using them 24/7... Don't know anything about this problem...

Interesting.

The samsung devices i saw, all had burn ins.
I guess Androids static UI was the problem.

Edit:

Still, i wouldnt use any software with static UI for long periods on amoled screens. Navigation software, for example.

The interesting problem with mobile devices is to get the most big display whithin a small and still mobile device. 5,5" is quite huge to fit into a (front) pocket. Jolla phone already is uncomfortable enough to carry around. Chen decided to go for a 5,5" display for his reasons, so a remaining parameter is the bezel around the display. In order to minimize the bezel around the device other interfaces/sensors have to be moved elsewhere.

Searching for solutions or compromises was my intention, not having a shiny or "cool" display without bezel. A phablet with keyboard will be no use for me, because I wouldn't carry around such an uncomfortable thing with me all the time. For this purpuse subnotebooks exist :-)

As pichlo mentioned, having no camera on the same side as the display is indeed a problem for video calls. So this was a dump idea.

Another point is the increased fragility of borderless displays, according to biketool. If a bigger bezel would help here I don't know. Usually I avoid dropping my stuff. I agreee that additional bumper cases are s**t.

True, but the closed device will certainly be thick enough to hold the device avoiding unwanted touch actions.

Thanks :-)

I interprete your answer as "Be grateful Chen tries to give us such a device and avoid to endanger its creation by demanding too much". Yes, I have to agree with you. As Chen did not react to these ideas, it seems that he agrees with you, too.

No need to apologize. You want to be sure that the project succeeds. I doubt, that our discussion will decide anything. Still it makes sense, as it could give Chen an idea, what might be possible or wanted by the potential customers.

What makes me wonder: Will an already existing case or housing be modified or will it be designed and produced from scratch? I guess this is a real tremendous task! A few here will remember the unfortunate story with the alternative N900 back case, won't you?

I feel the same, and so far that is the main point holding me from this project. I wait for the final overall dimensions to decide, but the Jolla 1 fits inside a bare 5.5" display without bezels, so it can't be smaller.
Anyway, I understand Chen arguments to use this size.

Coming back on that, what's limiting installing a normal linux kernel on phones if the bootloader is unlocked?

- What blocks do you encounter?
- Which components are unlikely to work?

I understand, I meant no offense in my previous post. I agree with you that 5.5" is huge and that the Jolla (not to mention the Jolla C) is already uncomfortable in trousers' pockets. Adding a keyboard to that won't help. The thing is, the 5.5" is not up to discussion because of the availability of parts for what Chen has in mind. I was one of those who discussed the screen size and overall form factor a few weeks ago when nothing but the existence of the project itself was announced, and I clearly would vote for a 4.5" display if that was an option. Even Chen said that he understands that some would want a more compact phone, but he added that this is not an option for this iteration so the only way to make it happen is to agree on some trade-offs. Screen size is one of those. It's unfortunate but it's the best we got and the device will be far beyond my expectations even with this kind of bulky screen. I agree on this trade-off.

Reducing the overall size of the phone around the screen is a good idea, but in my opinion it brings more costs and drawbacks than solutions, as you already pointed out in your initial post. Issues range from the cost and difficulty of conceiving this to the move of speakers on the back (and all the issues that this will in turn bring, meaning Chen would need to come up with a solution for each of them while big manufacturers with resources did not even try), the disappearance of the front camera, or the need to hold the phone by the keyboard... It's just too much complication with no existing solution to date on the market for just offsetting the phablet size. The device will still be smaller than a Pyra, it will still be a phone form factor, just a big one. Although I think it's good to remind and point out that the final size will be an important characteristic in itself, I see no way to drastically change it without just reducing the screen size, which Chen made it clear is not possible as of now.

We should keep the hype up and make this device successful instead of overemphasizing (not referring to anyone in particular here Ibins, no worries) the characteristics that we know cannot be improved for reasons out of Chen's control. And so far that's mainly (only?) the screen size according to this thread. We here tend to prefer smaller screens since there will already be a keyboard and no need for a virtual keyboard on screen, but this is not something a slight price increase would make possible (according to Chen). In the end let's focus on the many bright sides, and if the device is big, well, we should remember that millions of people do buy 5.5" phones nowadays (admittedly without the extra thickness of a keyboard).

Anyway, thank you for your elaborate answer and understanding the intent of my post. Again I think the idea of reducing the bezel is noble, but ultimately brings too many issues to compensate the initial one.

To be honest, I'm so eagerly looking forward to seeing this device become real that I'm checking TMO several times a day in hope that an update has been posted, while I was only visiting weekly before. The expression I can't wait rarely made so much sense.

Chen, are you doing the EE stuff from scratch or are you starting with a reference design (like Jolla did for J1) and then adding the keyboard?

I use my N9 since 2012 and I can only barely notice the outline of the nearly always visible battery icon. See for yourself:

So I would say, this is not a real problem anymore.
Amoled screens are amazing. I love to read white on black or red on black at night. To view pictures, videos or stars with stellarium. I would certainly pay 100€ more for a device with amoled screen than for one without. Although I know others don't value screen quality that much.

I really loved my N9 screen as well and I did not know AMOLED was vulnerable to burn ins. I don't remember of any symptoms on my N9 but I haven't really checked. However navigation/GPS applications may be the real issue as NX500 pointed out: they stay up with the screen on for literally hours continuously, I don't think this is the case for the battery icon in Harmattan unless the lockscreen is disabled (I don't remember actually, is it visible on the lockscreen, isn't it a different/bigger icon at a different position?).

I like to enable "keep display on when charging" on my phones so that I don't have to unlock them all the time when plugged to my computer or when ssh-ing, usually it does not last hours but I might forget to manually lock the screen overnight sometimes, and this would be a significant concern with a screen notoriously vulnerable to burn ins. But well, the N9 screen looked so good that I can't really say I would not like an AMOLED here again.