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Posts: 73 | Thanked: 65 times | Joined on May 2011
#21
Ok, most resources anyways.. and not only for Nokia N900.

I am just basing it on all te dead links about Nokia N900 in search engines and so which leads to horrible Lumia pages and the fact that all firmware and such was removed, followed by making maps unusable (Nokia) which was a devestating blow at the time.

Luckily we are blessed to have a community area like this where most resources are available

Was it Nokia or Microsoft who closed the community to force the now indepeence of this place?
 
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#22
Originally Posted by zeebra View Post
Ok, most resources anyways.. and not only for Nokia N900.

I am just basing it on all te dead links about Nokia N900 in search engines and so which leads to horrible Lumia pages and the fact that all firmware and such was removed, followed by making maps unusable (Nokia) which was a devestating blow at the time.

Luckily we are blessed to have a community area like this where most resources are available

Was it Nokia or Microsoft who closed the community to force the now indepeence of this place?
Do not mistake contractual obligations for the 'will of a company'. Neither Nokia, nor MS wants to keep us around, MS just has to. On the other hand they are trying to be more like Google from the old days, open source happy and community building happy (until they can F that all and concentrate on closed source gapps once everybody believed they are kewl). Which doesn't exactly stop anyone from taking advantage of their open source PR happiness. Hey company X, you state you are for FOSS and even throw a party for debian, why not give us sources. Get a journalist or two on that and maybe we can see results (but apathy and disbelief trumps everything anyway, nevermind)
 

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#23
Originally Posted by szopin View Post
Do not mistake contractual obligations for the 'will of a company'. Neither Nokia, nor MS wants to keep us around, MS just has to. On the other hand they are trying to be more like Google from the old days, open source happy and community building happy (until they can F that all and concentrate on closed source gapps once everybody believed they are kewl). Which doesn't exactly stop anyone from taking advantage of their open source PR happiness. Hey company X, you state you are for FOSS and even throw a party for debian, why not give us sources. Get a journalist or two on that and maybe we can see results (but apathy and disbelief trumps everything anyway, nevermind)
The problem is that one common reason for keeping software closed is because you don't even own the copyright. Obvious example is the flashplayer for Maemo. Nokia was allowed to distribute it, but could not single-handedly decide to open source it.

If Microsoft were to release the source code of whatever closed bits Maemo has, they would need to ask every single one of the copyright holders for permission (and this is assuming the source code is even available, either to Microsoft or to the original developers).

In short: it ain't gonna happen. Full stop.

For all I care the future, even for the N[eo]900, is either Mer/Nemo or some debian adaptation. We're lucky that the N900 sort-of-works with upstream kernel (though still a lot needs to be done). This puts us in a very very special situation compared to basically every other handset being sold.
 

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#24
Originally Posted by reinob View Post
The problem is that one common reason for keeping software closed is because you don't even own the copyright. Obvious example is the flashplayer for Maemo. Nokia was allowed to distribute it, but could not single-handedly decide to open source it.
In the aforesaid example, Adobe Flash isn't really a necessary/essential part of the OS and since it's no longer in production for any mobile device it just doesn't hit with a priority.

Why not use the Nokia N900 BME as an example instead? Nokia, thus Microsoft owns the code, it was never released; just reversed-engineered.

I think that's piss poor for a so-called "open" phone that was touted to be more open than Android. And it wasn't released because of supposedly being written so badly.... if it were open, then it could have been "righted". If Microsoft releases it, they might inherit a potential time waster for something that they'd rather just hopefully disappear.

Or they could release it, as-is, without condition or guarantee and I think that would perhaps be best.

But as it stands, and do not get me wrong... I'm a Maemo fan; this has dented my faith in whatever comes out as "open" in the near future due to lack of support once it gets out of the spotlight. I do not consider reverse-engineering a great option whenever this kind of situation arises.

So with that said... I agree. Microsoft... release the damn files. We don't even want a guarantee. Just access.

Realistically, we know it will not happen.
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#25
I don't think Maemo was ever touted to be more free/open source than Android, at least not by Nokia. Sure, there are plenty of fan boys on this forum that have said that. For me comparing the openness of the two is apples and oranges.

Right now, Android is ahead in this area, thanks in no small part to the Replicant project. Replicant can however only run on a small number of devices. Android has always had AOSP but it's not possible to build the complete Android environment from that.

With Maemo, we're still waiting on the excellent work from the Fremantle Porting Task Force. Progress is slow but I think they will get there eventually, probably without all of the features and services that Maemo 5 originally shipped with.

Maemo for me, has never been completely about being open source, otherwise I'd probably be using a Replicant device. The draw towards Maemo is more about interoperability with existing Linux OSs: glibc, X11, the ease of porting existing software, etc. In this sense of the word, it's way more open than Android.
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DebiaN900 - Native Debian on the N900.

Mobile devices with mainline Linux support - Help needed with documentation.

"Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly." - Henry Spencer

Last edited by wicket; 2015-10-30 at 21:37.
 

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#26
Originally Posted by wicket View Post
I don't think Maemo was ever touted to be more free/open source than Android, at least not by Nokia.
Search back... it was touted here as being more open than Android or some other ********.

Sure, there are plenty of fan boys on this forum that have said that. For me comparing the openness of the two is apples and oranges.
I thought so too at the time. Now, I wonder where all of that fanboyism has gone where the support has dried up. A lot of it, looking backwards, was just a knee-jerk reaction from this forum to support what they thought was the proper way forward.

Microsoft, via Stephen Elop, ended that quickly. But I'd rather state that the Nokia board, the folks that hired Elop, that allowed each and every Maemo device to inherit only one iteration of the Maemo OS for the most part (I know that's not 100% true including Hacker Editions and the N800/N810, but **** semantics for the moment) and in the end I just don't think the claims were justified then nor are they echoed as much now.

Simply put, it was ******** then, it's ******** now.

With Maemo, we're still waiting on the excellent work from the Fremantle Porting Task Force. Progress is slow but I think they will get there eventually, probably without all of the features and services that Maemo 5 originally shipped with.
Kudos to those guys.

Maemo for me, has never been completely about being open source...
Glad this has been said...

The draw towards Maemo is more about interoperability with existing Linux OSs: glibc, X11, the ease porting software, etc. In this sense of the word, it's way more open than Android.
We disagree here, but that's from an experience standpoint - which I have limited use nor experience in this to state otherwise. But this is an interesting point, one totally worth pondering.

Thanks for posting and giving me an alternate take. It's appreciated.
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#27
@gerbick: as for 'completely unsupported phone' development (cssu and apps) and users (forums) are quite active. as for 'release the files': citing doc/joerg: it's better to stay under m$ radar
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contact with me: #osc or #maemo on freenode/ircnet or /query KotCzarny
 

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#28
Originally Posted by szopin View Post
MS now craves good publicity, they organize things like Debian 8 release celebration (this cost them at least 50k), release first program that works straight away on linux ('code' for visual studio), sharp was open sourced, what a great time for maemo, because MS bought maemo from nokia. Open sourcing it costs them 0, and we can bring tons of good publicity just by cheering. Slashdot, reddit, you name it, will write about MS doing what nokia never could, so much more open they would be. Next announcement maemo programs run natively on windows 10
Does maemo program runs in windows 10 now? Seems have issues
 

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#29
Who does not have issues with Windows 10?
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#30
Originally Posted by pichlo View Post
Who does not have issues with Windows 10?
I have no issues with any windoze version whatsoever..
 

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