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#61
Scopes / lenses / notifications / events view / fast lane / google now.

They're all kind of the same but there is obviously degrees of control over what you want to see there and what you're happy having the OS or some app push on you.

Ubuntu have been there before of course with them pushing Amazon searches in their desktop.

Done well though I think the more dynamic aspects of a UI that gives you content relevant to your situation can be useful rather than having to pull it all together yourself.
 
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#62
Originally Posted by kinggo View Post
well, I'm not so sure. I think that jolla for 250€ is quite good deal now, better than aquaris, and if nothing more, it is available.
If you compare specs vs. price than probably not, but it's not all about the money. That kind of thinking actally brought us to this lousy situation, race to the bottom made all products worthless, no matter how much you pay, nothing is future proof, no support from manufacturers and even top models of whatever are obsolete after a year or so.
And don't forget that jolla is is jolla, there's no jolla in different case with different branding while this aquaris is most likely the same as who knows how many other micro brands out there. Just different case and branding.
Uhm... I did not compare specs thoroughly, but the Ubuntu phone and the Jolla seem to be quite similar, hardware wise.

Comparing specs, is the correct way to rationally decide between two systems that are running the same software.

Now the Jolla and the Ubuntu phone are running different OSes, but they are both interesting to me, at least in principle. Jolla has the advantage of one year in the hands of consumers, which means it is (now) more ready for actual users. Ubuntu can be interesting as a new toy/development platform. And you do not have to break the bank to get the new toy, which is good.

Race to the bottom is, in general good for phones. Low end phones of today are quite capable, and given that they tend to break, get lost or stolen and require a replacement every two three years, I cannot understand spending 500eur+ for one.

Both Ubuntu and Jolla have drawbacks, but on the whole, having them both available is better than having neither. Plus, they both will be working on common infrastructure, so e.g. improvements on Telepathy from the ubuntu side means Jolla will eventually get the same improvements, and viceversa.
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#63
Originally Posted by handaxe View Post
Absolutely. If Ubuntu landed 3 hardware partners and straddled to the mid- (bq, ano) to high-end (Meizu, bq? ano) end of the market they would be significantly better placed than Jolla.

Jolla also needs to be promising and delivering a new device besides the tablet. Phones are where it is at, at the moment.
Software is where it is at.That's what Jolla need to be better placed than the competition. Hardware is pretty much a commodity unless you've a niche to fill like cameras (Nokia), waterproof ness (Sony)

I hope Sailfish 2.0 isn't just Sailfish 1.1 Tablet Edition (beta) with "monthly" drops of whatever comes out of the agile development process but never quite fixes the big bugs or adds new features.

Early days with Ubuntu of course but they appear to have spent some time getting to their first release.
 

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#64
Originally Posted by mikelima View Post

Race to the bottom is, in general good for phones. Low end phones of today are quite capable, and given that they tend to break, get lost or stolen and require a replacement every two three years, I cannot understand spending 500eur+ for one.
low end, high end, it really doesn't matter, you don't get much support for either of them simply because mantra is that they are all to cheap and if you are not happy/something doesn't work, there will be new model out soon that will be even cheaper and more capable so you'll easily forget about this one. The fact that the next one will also be messed up somehow is ignored.
SONY TVs from 2014 have nasty bug that if you media player crashes the only way to restore it is to reset the TV to factory settings and then start all over from scratch. Clearly a software issue. And they are on the market for a year now. And there were a few SW updates but that issue is still present. And 2015 models are about to come out and this will never be resolved. And that's what I'm talking about. So if I ditch this one and get the new one, what will be wrong with that one that will never be resolved and I will wait for 2016 models to come out in hope that it will be fixed just to find out that something else is broken.
LG came up with WebOS TVs in 2014, now they have models with WebOS 2.0 for 2015. But none of the 2014 model will be upgraded, not those for 500€ neither those for 2500€.
So, no, race to the bottom didn't bring anything good in a long run. At first, it seems that we do get better and cheaper products but in a long run we just produce worthless junk that generates incredible amounts of electronic waste.
 

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#65
Originally Posted by aegis View Post
Software is where it is at.That's what Jolla need to be better placed than the competition. Hardware is pretty much a commodity unless you've a niche to fill like cameras (Nokia), waterproof ness (Sony)
I agree on this point. Some premium is OK for software features you are keen on having, but other than that, the harware is pretty much standardized.

Originally Posted by aegis View Post
I hope Sailfish 2.0 isn't just Sailfish 1.1 Tablet Edition (beta) with "monthly" drops of whatever comes out of the agile development process but never quite fixes the big bugs or adds new features.

Early days with Ubuntu of course but they appear to have spent some time getting to their first release.
Sailfish 2.0 will pretty much be Sailfish 1.1 Tablet edition. There seem to be a few nice things coming our way, but I do not expect miracles in three months. They may keep some feature behind curtains for a bigger splash release, but I doubt they will amount to more than a few nice new features.

The January release was actually quite important, under the hood, so user level features will be coming eventually, but there are limits to what a team of 100 can do.

They are giving us (fairly) regular releases, that improve the software slowly but steadily, most of the time. Kind of like open source development.

I would like to see improvements as well, but we cannot expect miracles.

Jolla should actually focus on infrastructure, more than applications, and document it so third parties can provide user level features.

For infrastructure, I mean

* sharing services APIs
* text to speech
* voice recognition
* account registry
* file indexing
* location and positioning
* and more stuff like that
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#66
Originally Posted by aegis View Post
Hardware is pretty much a commodity ...
True but one quite tightly linked to particular software (OSs). And that is the problem. A little bit like early days desktop linux - there was always some or other peripheral not supported.

There is jailbreaking, CM etc and Ubuntu & Sailfish can be installed on other HW but often there are show-stoppers. In that sense, you are wrong.

I want a recognisably Linux phone implementation, like Maemo (never used Meego/Harmatten), open and working flawlessly on modern hardware. HW keyboard would be a plus but I am resigned on that account and pocket bluetooth keyboards do the job.
Sailfish is a contender. I hope Ubuntu Touch is too.
 

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#67
Originally Posted by kinggo View Post
If you compare specs vs. price than probably not, but it's not all about the money. That kind of thinking actally brought us to this lousy situation, race to the bottom made all products worthless, no matter how much you pay....
No.
This is called the free market, where you get what you pay for.

If you want top build quality combined with top performance you can have it right now, from a number of vendors. Race to the bottom does not mean that no one can create and successfully sell high end hardware, no, it means that in a fast advancing market a product ages relative to its competition.

4.5" screen at 960x540.
dual-core CPU with low IPC with a cut down GPU.
1GB of low bandwidth DDR2

This has a new price ceiling of 169 Euros as of last week.
 
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#68
Originally Posted by Jedibeeftrix View Post
No.
This is called the free market, where you get what you pay for.

If you want top build quality combined with top performance you can have it right now, from a number of vendors. Race to the bottom does not mean that no one can create and successfully sell high end hardware, no, it means that in a fast advancing market a product ages relative to its competition.

4.5" screen at 960x540.
dual-core CPU with low IPC with a cut down GPU.
1GB of low bandwidth DDR2

This has a new price ceiling of 169 Euros as of last week.
Remember to factor in LTE vs non-LTE - two different price groups.
 

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#69
Jedibeeftrix,

A Ford Fiesta and a Lamborghini Aventador are both just pieces of bent metal held together with a bunch of screws. How do you justify the price difference?

Details, my friend, details!
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#70
Originally Posted by Stskeeps View Post
Remember to factor in LTE vs non-LTE - two different price groups.
Yes, but is that worth the price difference for people?

To me LTE is not that hot, at this moment in time.
Deployment in my region is still sketchy, and the high speed is not really that interesting, given that I am still limited to 4GB/month of usage.

This will hopefully change in time, but let us say that in two years the LTE deployment is complete, and data rates are lowered according to the new availability (which is dubious, as operators will delay that as long as they can):

I will probably buy a new phone at that time, so, "future proofing" it by buying a more advanced model was not really worth it.

Bottom line: it makes sense to pay a premium for new technology only if you are going to use immediately, not in the hope it will be useful in the future, because you may not be using the same gadget when you finally could use that technology.
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