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2010-09-25
, 06:49
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Posts: 2,869 |
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Joined on Feb 2007
@ Po' Bo'. PA
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#12
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What a mess, eh?
Recently I read a quote from a newly hired Nokia executive about GUI design. It was something about how most mobile OS's currently out there require the user to go back through the front door if they wish to start another task. The front door was used in his metaphor and he stated that if you are in the living room of your house and you want to go to the kitchen, you go to the kitchen. You don't go back outside and enter the kitchen through the front door again like you have to do with some OS's that require you to first hit a "home" key or somesuch.
He proposed that a mobile OS should be the same way. When you are involved with one task and want to say listen to music while doing so you should be able to go right to the media player (or whatever) from the task you are in instead of having to go back "home" first, yadda, yadda, yadda...
I bring this up here because right now, in order to find a relevant wiki article you need to at least find an index of links... there is a pretty good one already >> http://wiki.maemo.org/Main_Page
In order to get to it from this forum you need to first start clicking on the links in the bar at the top of this page. I don't readily know which one because none actually say WIKI...
Let's first try the "Intro" link >> http://maemo.org/intro/
Nope... No WIKI links there.
How about we now try the next link on that bar "Downloads"?
>> http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/
Nope... No WIKI links there either.
Moving along, let's hit the next link on that bar "Community".
>> http://maemo.org/community/
Bingo!
Down that page there is a WiKi header, cool... But wait, there is only what appears to be 8 categories.
Is that all there is?
I hope not.
Let's try the first one that may appear to a new user to be just a bunch of random letters taken from the alphabet...
>> http://wiki.maemo.org/SMSCON
Nope, no index but if you look to the right you see a bunch of new links and one of them is "Main Page".
Is it the main page of the forum?
If you look up you will see that you must log-in so I guess we are not in Kansas anymore Toto.
Lets click on it anyway and see what happens!
>> http://wiki.maemo.org/Main_Page
Whoo Hoo, we found it!
But as was mentioned earlier, there doesn't seem to be any categories for legacy devices...
***
So, borrowing the metaphor I refer to at the top of my post:
In this case it appears that if you are in the forum "living room" you need to climb out a window, climb into the neighbors living room through their window, then go out side and enter the WiKi "kitchen" through their front door.
The trouble is, they may have already thrown out the food you like.
Recently I read a quote from a newly hired Nokia executive about GUI design. It was something about how most mobile OS's currently out there require the user to go back through the front door if they wish to start another task. The front door was used in his metaphor and he stated that if you are in the living room of your house and you want to go to the kitchen, you go to the kitchen. You don't go back outside and enter the kitchen through the front door again like you have to do with some OS's that require you to first hit a "home" key or somesuch.
He proposed that a mobile OS should be the same way. When you are involved with one task and want to say listen to music while doing so you should be able to go right to the media player (or whatever) from the task you are in instead of having to go back "home" first, yadda, yadda, yadda...
I bring this up here because right now, in order to find a relevant wiki article you need to at least find an index of links... there is a pretty good one already >> http://wiki.maemo.org/Main_Page
In order to get to it from this forum you need to first start clicking on the links in the bar at the top of this page. I don't readily know which one because none actually say WIKI...
Let's first try the "Intro" link >> http://maemo.org/intro/
Nope... No WIKI links there.
How about we now try the next link on that bar "Downloads"?
>> http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/
Nope... No WIKI links there either.
Moving along, let's hit the next link on that bar "Community".
>> http://maemo.org/community/
Bingo!
Down that page there is a WiKi header, cool... But wait, there is only what appears to be 8 categories.
Is that all there is?
I hope not.
Let's try the first one that may appear to a new user to be just a bunch of random letters taken from the alphabet...
>> http://wiki.maemo.org/SMSCON
Nope, no index but if you look to the right you see a bunch of new links and one of them is "Main Page".
Is it the main page of the forum?
If you look up you will see that you must log-in so I guess we are not in Kansas anymore Toto.
Lets click on it anyway and see what happens!
>> http://wiki.maemo.org/Main_Page
Whoo Hoo, we found it!
But as was mentioned earlier, there doesn't seem to be any categories for legacy devices...
***
So, borrowing the metaphor I refer to at the top of my post:
In this case it appears that if you are in the forum "living room" you need to climb out a window, climb into the neighbors living room through their window, then go out side and enter the WiKi "kitchen" through their front door.
The trouble is, they may have already thrown out the food you like.
| The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to YoDude For This Useful Post: | ||
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2010-09-25
, 08:08
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Posts: 263 |
Thanked: 679 times |
Joined on Apr 2008
@ Lyon, France
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#13
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Originally Posted by GeraldKo
Short answer: I don't know; there doesn't look to be any obvious edits removing them in the MicroB wiki page. There are a couple of us who follow the recent changes log (and we could use more people) who usually catch this over-zealous behaviour, but sometimes things get through the cracks (witness "N900 Hardware" page proliferation, which I think isn't useful: http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?titl...re&namespace=0).
Dave, thanks for getting back to us on this. I haven't looked at the newly agreed wiki priorities, but I can tell you this: Even if the wiki wasn't scrubbed entirely clean of Maemo4 info, there are important things that were there which no longer are. Case in point is the Microb Hardware Key Bindings, which I wrote about in the first post.
Where did things like that go? Is there a way to get them back?
Perhaps they didn't make the migration from the itt wiki? Perhaps theyw ere deleted because someone (maybe even me?) didn't think that the information was useful/relevant? Perhaps it was a 3/4 like wiki page that got deleted or merged with another one? Perhaps there was someone who misguidedly "tidied up" pages, and was overly zealous? I really can't tell.
Would it be overly glib on my part to suggest that if there's a use for this information that the MicroB wiki page or the "MicroB tweaks" page (if this is a tweak) would be good places to put this? This is, after all, a wiki
Cheers,
Dave.
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2010-09-25
, 15:05
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Posts: 2,869 |
Thanked: 1,784 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Po' Bo'. PA
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#14
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Originally Posted by dneary
Short answer: I don't know; there doesn't look to be any obvious edits removing them in the MicroB wiki page. There are a couple of us who follow the recent changes log (and we could use more people) who usually catch this over-zealous behaviour, but sometimes things get through the cracks (witness "N900 Hardware" page proliferation, which I think isn't useful: http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?titl...re&namespace=0).
Perhaps they didn't make the migration from the itt wiki? Perhaps theyw ere deleted because someone (maybe even me?) didn't think that the information was useful/relevant? Perhaps it was a 3/4 like wiki page that got deleted or merged with another one? Perhaps there was someone who misguidedly "tidied up" pages, and was overly zealous? I really can't tell.
Would it be overly glib on my part to suggest that if there's a use for this information that the MicroB wiki page or the "MicroB tweaks" page (if this is a tweak) would be good places to put this? This is, after all, a wiki
Cheers,
Dave.
And how many people access and use it?
I'm sure the hundreds or so active members of the mailing list do all the time.
The thousands of forum members who came here for information before maemo.org acquired itT, and the 10's of thousand who came to this forum since, can't find it... and for whatever reason, haven't bothered to join the mailing lists.
Would it be glib to say that members of maemo.org's mailing lists already know most of this information and the lions share of any "karma" used to motivate a new user to become involved in its maintenance has already been earned by some of those same members for moving, editing, and in some cases removing this previously easy to access info in the first place.
This is, after all, about access and the information served...
Warm regards,
Steve.
Last edited by YoDude; 2010-09-25 at 15:08.
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2010-09-27
, 08:20
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Posts: 263 |
Thanked: 679 times |
Joined on Apr 2008
@ Lyon, France
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#15
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Originally Posted by YoDude
If you'd like to turn some of that anger into productive effort to improve the wiki, I would be delighted to hear your suggestions for improvements.
What a mess, eh?
The wiki gardners page states a certain number of principles we're using to guide wiki editing, and the maemo.org website redesign pages can give you some hints as to the design decisions which were made for maemo.org.
Some of these things can be improved, if you point out their failings & make suggestions for improvements. Some things (for example, not explicitly pointing to "wiki", which is a technology, and instead pointing to "documentation", which is what is in the wiki) were design decisions, which I would be very hesitant to change.
Cheers,
Dave.
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2010-09-27
, 09:23
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Posts: 1,224 |
Thanked: 1,763 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
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#16
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Originally Posted by dneary
Here is a great idea:
Perhaps theyw ere deleted because someone (maybe even me?) didn't think that the information was useful/relevant?
If you don't understand a page's relevance or usefulness, don't delete it. This wiki is supposed to be about Maemo, not about you.
Would it be overly glib on my part to suggest that if there's a use for this information that the MicroB wiki page or the "MicroB tweaks" page (if this is a tweak) would be good places to put this? This is, after all, a wiki
__________________
My repository
"N900 community support for the MeeGo-Harmattan" Is the new "Mer is Fremantle for N810".
No more Nokia devices for me.
My repository
"N900 community support for the MeeGo-Harmattan" Is the new "Mer is Fremantle for N810".
No more Nokia devices for me.
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2010-09-27
, 09:34
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Posts: 2,869 |
Thanked: 1,784 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Po' Bo'. PA
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#17
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Originally Posted by dneary
Don't change a thing dude... Including my narrative.
If you'd like to turn some of that anger into productive effort to improve the wiki, I would be delighted to hear your suggestions for improvements.
The wiki gardners page states a certain number of principles we're using to guide wiki editing, and the maemo.org website redesign pages can give you some hints as to the design decisions which were made for maemo.org.
Some of these things can be improved, if you point out their failings & make suggestions for improvements. Some things (for example, not explicitly pointing to "wiki", which is a technology, and instead pointing to "documentation", which is what is in the wiki) were design decisions, which I would be very hesitant to change.
Cheers,
Dave.
There was no anger expressed by me just two questions were asked and one was rhetorical.
In another thread where I proposed that the user wiki's be returned to the forum (where most originated) before any info is lost, I was told no info would be lost.
Yet here we are.
In both threads my suggestion was greeted with responses that basically said nothing would be changed anyway.
No anger dude... just disappointment.
When it is all said and done and most, if not all of the people involved with the mechanics of off loading info from these forums have moved on, there will still be plenty of us 770, N800/810, and N900 users out there.
I'm thinking the forums will remain but the experience will be like checking into the San Diego Marriott a week after Comic-Con.
Last edited by YoDude; 2010-09-27 at 09:38. Reason: quote added
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2010-09-27
, 09:53
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Posts: 263 |
Thanked: 679 times |
Joined on Apr 2008
@ Lyon, France
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#18
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Hi,
Off the top of my head, I can think of pages like the "Linux" page, which was a 1 paragraph description of what Linux is. I deleted that one. and sometimes, pages which are migrated from itt or the old midgard wiki were either *really* old (I mean, 4 to 5 years old, with no information current for N8x0 users, even, linking to dead repositories, etc). Is it better to leave an increasingly inaccurate page online, spend half a day trying to understand what the author meant and try to update the page so that it's useful, or delete it as unmaintained and mostly useless? Sometimes we (and by "we", I mean "the members of the Maemo community who contribute to wiki maintenance") choose the latter solution.
That's not the criteria - as you would know if you visited and read the wiki gardners page. Our objective is to maintain the wiki, to ensure that all the information in it is useful to visitors. And unmaintained wiki pages are sometimes not useful any more, and get deleted for the good of the wiki.
Now, let me repeat, I have no *specific* knowledge about *this* particular issue, and am merely explaining how wiki maintenance works *in general* - pages get deleted very rarely, but when they do it is generally because (a) the page was not migrated from another wiki because the people doing the migration could not evaluate its usefulness, or (b) the page was deemed to be (mostly) useless. In this situation, the normal recommended procedure is to extract the useful information, merge it into the most appropriate page, and delete the useless information. Sometimes that means trimming down a page, and sometimes it means merging several pages.
Indiscriminate creation of wiki pages of varying quality & usefulness does not make a better wiki, any more than allowing graffiti inside an art gallery makes a better art resource.
(To repeat, I'm explaining principles here, not speaking to any specific page or incident).
Cheers,
Dave.
Originally Posted by Matan
Note that I'm not saying this happened, but it's definitely a possibility. As the wiki maintainer, I have to think also about the usability of the wiki for visitors. A wiki can't be an unkempt information dump, and some of the wiki pages were just that.
Here is a great idea:
If you don't understand a page's relevance or usefulness, don't delete it. This wiki is supposed to be about Maemo, not about you.
Off the top of my head, I can think of pages like the "Linux" page, which was a 1 paragraph description of what Linux is. I deleted that one. and sometimes, pages which are migrated from itt or the old midgard wiki were either *really* old (I mean, 4 to 5 years old, with no information current for N8x0 users, even, linking to dead repositories, etc). Is it better to leave an increasingly inaccurate page online, spend half a day trying to understand what the author meant and try to update the page so that it's useful, or delete it as unmaintained and mostly useless? Sometimes we (and by "we", I mean "the members of the Maemo community who contribute to wiki maintenance") choose the latter solution.
Why would someone want to work on some page that you will later delete because you do not understand. If the criterion for page survival is that one of a few select people understands it, let those select few write the pages, and not ask other people to waste their time.
Now, let me repeat, I have no *specific* knowledge about *this* particular issue, and am merely explaining how wiki maintenance works *in general* - pages get deleted very rarely, but when they do it is generally because (a) the page was not migrated from another wiki because the people doing the migration could not evaluate its usefulness, or (b) the page was deemed to be (mostly) useless. In this situation, the normal recommended procedure is to extract the useful information, merge it into the most appropriate page, and delete the useless information. Sometimes that means trimming down a page, and sometimes it means merging several pages.
Indiscriminate creation of wiki pages of varying quality & usefulness does not make a better wiki, any more than allowing graffiti inside an art gallery makes a better art resource.
(To repeat, I'm explaining principles here, not speaking to any specific page or incident).
Cheers,
Dave.
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2010-09-27
, 10:04
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Posts: 1,224 |
Thanked: 1,763 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
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#19
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Originally Posted by dneary
I also have no specific knowledge about htis issue. I am merely trying to explain to you how wiki maintenance *should* work in general.
Now, let me repeat, I have no *specific* knowledge about *this* particular issue, and am merely explaining how wiki maintenance works *in general*.
A simple and very useful rule is: If you want to encourage other people to edit your wiki, don't delete their work just because you don't understand its usefulness.
See here, for example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia
eletion_policyIndiscriminate creation of wiki pages of varying quality & usefulness does not make a better wiki, any more than allowing graffiti inside an art gallery makes a better art resource.
__________________
My repository
"N900 community support for the MeeGo-Harmattan" Is the new "Mer is Fremantle for N810".
No more Nokia devices for me.
My repository
"N900 community support for the MeeGo-Harmattan" Is the new "Mer is Fremantle for N810".
No more Nokia devices for me.
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2010-09-28
, 00:18
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Posts: 2,869 |
Thanked: 1,784 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Po' Bo'. PA
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#20
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You are both saying the same thing I think... and in the process, highlighting my original call to return the information to the forums.
Matan, if I may...
You are saying that the WiKi should be maintained by the people who use it. If that's about right.
Dave, you are saying the same thing.
Dave, you are saying to me I believe, the WiKi is there for all members to edit and not just a "select few". In the process you are highlighting my concern.
When we looked up in the exercise I took us through a couple of posts ago, we noticed we were not in Kansas anymore. For good or ill maemo.org's environment is not this forum's environment. Sooner or later a decision will be made to consolidate or work from within only one environment.
Now I don't know the numbers and can only report from my experience. In that experience I have been coming to this forum just about everyday since the N800 dropped. Although I and other forum members new and old are now maemo.org members, in most cases it was by proxy. I may visit the forum that often but I venture into maemo.org's cyber environment much, much less.
Perhaps many more maemo.org members use the forums than any other maemo.org service, perhaps the majority of the current membership joined maemo.org through the forum and not through the community door ... and that would be the heart of the matter.
Please consider that this forum's environment could just as easily support WiKi's, FAQ's, archives and many other services...
Also consider that this environment can more easily evolve into the two tiered, contributing member/ad supported venue that may be needed for maemo.org and any its information or services to survive. If in fact my premise about maemo.org enrollment is correct, wouldn't more members use and contribute to the maintenance of these services?
That is my concern, survival.
***
I realize that some feel this type of discussion is best conducted someplace else, but this is a forum isn't it? Where else should this be discussed?
I also realize that some may hope that we go on forever the way we were, but the way we were always had hope for improvement didn't it?
Do you think many of these hoped for improvements will still come?
And finally, having been a part of this and other forums for some time I realize this thread could easily devolve into side discussions that develop into full scale arguments that have very little to do with the original topic, information survival.
The usual response to matters of survival is fight or flight... anything else might be considered just plain ol' asshattery.
Last edited by YoDude; 2010-09-28 at 00:27.
Matan, if I may...
You are saying that the WiKi should be maintained by the people who use it. If that's about right.
Dave, you are saying the same thing.
Dave, you are saying to me I believe, the WiKi is there for all members to edit and not just a "select few". In the process you are highlighting my concern.
When we looked up in the exercise I took us through a couple of posts ago, we noticed we were not in Kansas anymore. For good or ill maemo.org's environment is not this forum's environment. Sooner or later a decision will be made to consolidate or work from within only one environment.
Now I don't know the numbers and can only report from my experience. In that experience I have been coming to this forum just about everyday since the N800 dropped. Although I and other forum members new and old are now maemo.org members, in most cases it was by proxy. I may visit the forum that often but I venture into maemo.org's cyber environment much, much less.
Perhaps many more maemo.org members use the forums than any other maemo.org service, perhaps the majority of the current membership joined maemo.org through the forum and not through the community door ... and that would be the heart of the matter.
Please consider that this forum's environment could just as easily support WiKi's, FAQ's, archives and many other services...
Also consider that this environment can more easily evolve into the two tiered, contributing member/ad supported venue that may be needed for maemo.org and any its information or services to survive. If in fact my premise about maemo.org enrollment is correct, wouldn't more members use and contribute to the maintenance of these services?
That is my concern, survival.
***
I realize that some feel this type of discussion is best conducted someplace else, but this is a forum isn't it? Where else should this be discussed?
I also realize that some may hope that we go on forever the way we were, but the way we were always had hope for improvement didn't it?
Do you think many of these hoped for improvements will still come?
And finally, having been a part of this and other forums for some time I realize this thread could easily devolve into side discussions that develop into full scale arguments that have very little to do with the original topic, information survival.
The usual response to matters of survival is fight or flight... anything else might be considered just plain ol' asshattery.
Last edited by YoDude; 2010-09-28 at 00:27.
OP: Woops I forgot you actually resolved in finding the page.
As far where the page went it was probably added as a redirect to another page and that page then changed drastically.EDIT2:
http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?titl...ks&oldid=12431
April 10, 2009 by Allnameswereout
Looks not much different from the current revision. Also in the wiki history it lists the page creation as an import from the Internet Tablet Talk wiki. So it appears that you were remembering from the old wiki... >.>
As far as the OP goes:http://internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php/Internet:Microb_Hardware_Key_bindings
&
http://www.talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=100884&postcount=11
Which for posterity is as follows:
Step 1
change:
Choose A or B:
*OPTIONAL* (option A): Use the middle button to scroll forward add the line:
<handler event="keypress" keycode="VK_RETURN" command="cmd_movePageDown"/><handler event="keypress" keycode="VK_RETURN" command="cmd_scrollPageDown"/>^x (CTRL+X) to exit
^y (CTRL+Y) to save file
Step 5
change:
user_pref("snav.enabled", true);user_pref("snav.enabled", false);^x (CTRL+X) to exit
^y (CTRL+Y) to save file
Step 8
Open MicroB
{ https://sites.google.com/site/maemo4repo/home }
Last edited by linuxeventually; 2010-09-25 at 04:07. Reason: forgot to re-read the original post