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2009-08-31
, 08:44
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#22
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I'll move it to the N900 section, as it is about the N900.
Or even to the Maemo 5/Fremantle section, as it is software rather than hw related. Cheers for the reminder Quim
Last edited by lardman; 2009-08-31 at 08:46.
Or even to the Maemo 5/Fremantle section, as it is software rather than hw related. Cheers for the reminder Quim
Last edited by lardman; 2009-08-31 at 08:46.
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2009-08-31
, 08:45
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#23
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Originally Posted by gerbick
But he doesn't say the HTC Hero has Flash 10 - he's just repeated the press release, in which case I'm not sure why you're confused about what is on the Hero given the evidence.
Ryan Stewart, that link I posted earlier works at Adobe on the Adobe Flex/Flash Builder (Flex 4) and Adobe Flash Catalyst teams.
So on first read, you'd think he was a person that would know.
Where has anyone said the HTC Hero is shipping with Flash Player 10, as then I could understand your confusion. So far both Adobe/HTC, Ryan and Adrian Ludwig (Adobe developer on Flash) in his video have all said it "has Flash" (which turns out to be Flash 9) and will have Flash 10 Player "in the future".
Anyway, the point is, I think, that Flash 10 Player is not yet available for any ARM device but will be later in the year, and will be even better in 2010...
Last edited by Milhouse; 2009-08-31 at 08:48.
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2009-08-31
, 08:52
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#24
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Originally Posted by Milhouse
One
But he doesn't say the HTC Hero has Flash 10 - he's just repeated the press release, in which case I'm not sure why you're confused about what is on the Hero given the evidence.
Where has anyone said the HTC Hero is shipping with Flash Player 10, as then I could understand your confusion. So far both Adobe/HTC and Ryan have said it "has Flash" (which turns out to be Flash 9) and will have Flash 10 Player "in the future".
Two
Three
The semantics in play isn't that it will be delivered, it seemed as if it had been delivered.
But if you read Ryan's statements closely - which I had to go back and read his tweets about it, the confusion stops with this one statement "Once we get the runtimes out for Flash Player 10..."
Keyword: Once
The announcements of what is delivered and what will be delivered are a bit vague if you're speed reading.
Now with that said, the runtimes are forthcoming in the Open Screen Project yet unfortunately I wonder when will the Nokia product get it? Seems like HTC is first in line (as is Android) and despite Nokia being a funded portion of the Open Screen Project, there's no comment(s) on when that would happen.
There is a date for Android. Thus, my true confusion. 9.4 the end of the road, or will they inherit 10.x? And when?
Last edited by gerbick; 2009-08-31 at 08:56.
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2009-08-31
, 10:24
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@ London, UK
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#25
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Originally Posted by gerbick
Yes, this is the point I've been making - it hasn't shipped with FP10 yet, but will do. It's easy to misinterpret the press release by reading it too quickly and jumping to conclusions (as is the case with links one and most definitely three although link two does eventually spell it out correctly despite the tendentious title: it's Flash 9 now - still a first for Android - and Flash 10 next year)
One
Two
Three
The semantics in play isn't that it will be delivered, it seemed as if it had been delivered.
But if you read Ryan's statements closely - which I had to go back and read his tweets about it, the confusion stops with this one statement "Once we get the runtimes out for Flash Player 10..."
Keyword: Once
The announcements of what is delivered and what will be delivered are a bit vague if you're speed reading.
Originally Posted by gerbick
The only confirmed dates are those I've already quoted from the Adobe press releases - ARM FP10 available to manufacturers in second half 2009 (and end users Q1 2010?), with optimised OMAP FP10 available to manufacturers in Q1 2010 with a likely release in H2 2010. No precise dates in relation to Android have been announced by any manufacturer or Google as far as I can tell, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
Now with that said, the runtimes are forthcoming in the Open Screen Project yet unfortunately I wonder when will the Nokia product get it? Seems like HTC is first in line (as is Android) and despite Nokia being a funded portion of the Open Screen Project, there's no comment(s) on when that would happen.
There is a date for Android. Thus, my true confusion. 9.4 the end of the road, or will they inherit 10.x? And when?
So coming back to the original issue raised by this thread, it's not Nokia or ARM or Adobe's fault that FP10 hasn't shipped with the N900 as FP10 is clearly still a work in progress and will come in it's own good time.
I don't know - or care - if Android will get it first, my guess is that the various competing manufacturers will all get an ARM build of FP10 around the same time and will release it according to their own schedules. No doubt there will be some kudos being the first with full FP10 but frankly I'd rather have it when it's ready, and the OMAP optimised version should be even better on the N900, so much so that I wouldn't object if Nokia decided to pass on the standard ARM build of FP10 waiting instead for the OMAP optimised version to be ready.
Last edited by Milhouse; 2009-08-31 at 10:31.
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2009-08-31
, 10:57
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#26
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Originally Posted by Milhouse
Exactly. So why announce the more confusing 9.4 when it's really 9.0.124 to the population? To me, as a Flex/Flash dev, it means a few things specifically to me, even moreso to me if I use Flash Media Server - I have to be updated in order to allow proper H.264 and AAC streaming, otherwise I lock out those devices much like Hulu has been doing - rather unnecessarily too I might add.
Yes, this is the point I've been making - it hasn't shipped with FP10 yet, but will do. It's easy to misinterpret the press release by reading it too quickly and jumping to conclusions (as is the case with links one and most definitely three although link two does eventually spell it out correctly despite the tendentious title: it's Flash 9 now - still a first for Android - and Flash 10 next year)
The only confirmed dates are those I've already quoted from the Adobe press releases - ARM FP10 available to manufacturers in second half 2009 (and end users Q1 2010?), with optimised OMAP FP10 available to manufacturers in Q1 2010 with a likely release in H2 2010. No precise dates in relation to Android have been announced by any manufacturer or Google as far as I can tell, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
However, I did find this article by John Dowdell and it further clarifies...
Originally Posted by that blog article
The preview for Android is coming in October. And from you've stated, it seems like Adobe's bringing the FP10 to the ARM platform in 2010. That's a bit more solid than the nebulous 9.4 announcement in those Maemo 5 vids.Adobe expects to provide a developer preview version of this engine at the MAX conference in October.
So coming back to the original issue raised by this thread, it's not Nokia or ARM or Adobe's fault that FP10 hasn't shipped with the N900 as FP10 is clearly still a work in progress and will come in it's own good time.
It's not even really a significant one either. From 9.0.32 to 9.0.124 or so is rather small in the realm of Flash. Both do support flv, AS3 and streaming media. The latter does support (better) AAC and H.264 and a few security updates - that really affected the Mac/Win side, but not Linux from my understanding (I don't mind admitting being wrong here) - but it's rather minor when desktop has upgraded past 10.0.32 right now.
That was the original concern. From my stand point, as a dev... it's still not far along enough for me to say that everything I do in Flex 3 w/ the 3.4 SDK and Flash Media Server 3.0 (not upgraded) will work. And the moment I make the jump to Flash Builder 4 (Flex 4) it won't work at all if I use any 3D outside of Papervision3D - which is strict AS3 anyway, but not reliant on the 3D capabilities of FP10 exclusively.
Which leads to the final concern... will it mean that the flash player will finally be update-able?
Those are the points of my confusion. I can't output to 9.4, it's either 9.0 or 10.0. But I have to be mindful of what code I use in my projects to avoid locking out people that might be using certain technology or levels of the flash player. And not knowing when or if they might be able to update, does affect me.
I can't carry my N810 to show off some sites already. Looking like I will be in the same boat until 2010 for the N900 if I choose it.
I hope that makes more sense. The concerns were there in the beginning.
Just badly spelled out.
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2009-08-31
, 11:02
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#27
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Hey, this got moved. Anyway, I meant 9.0.48, not 9.0.32. 10.0.32.18 is my current debugger version... oops.
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2009-08-31
, 11:28
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#28
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Originally Posted by gerbick
But why not announce 9.4? 10 isn't available, so Nokia went with the latest working version of 9 - sounds sensible to me, but perhaps they didn't understand or appreciate the incompatabilities with h.264 (or considered it an insignificant problem?) It may only be an incremental update on the version shipped with Diablo, but that was from almost 2 years ago (there may have been an incremental Flash Player update released during Diablo, but not 100% sure).
Actually, I don't think this was the original issue. It was more about why announce 9.4 when it's merely a point jump from the already existing install used in Maemo now.
Originally Posted by gerbick
There is no technical reason why it can't be updated - the only reason it won't be updated is due to corporate politics and potential licence fees (the same reasons given for not updating Flash on the 770).
Which leads to the final concern... will it mean that the flash player will finally be update-able?
Originally Posted by gerbick
Maybe someone from Nokia can give you assurances that FP10 will ship as an update for Fremantle once it is ready? Once the competing devices have FP10 I would expect it to turn up fairly soon after on the N900.
Those are the points of my confusion. I can't output to 9.4, it's either 9.0 or 10.0. But I have to be mindful of what code I use in my projects to avoid locking out people that might be using certain technology or levels of the flash player. And not knowing when or if they might be able to update, does affect me.
I can't carry my N810 to show off some sites already. Looking like I will be in the same boat until 2010 for the N900 if I choose it.
I hope that makes more sense. The concerns were there in the beginning.
Just badly spelled out.
Last edited by Milhouse; 2009-08-31 at 11:32.
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2009-08-31
, 11:41
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Posts: 3,319 |
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Joined on Aug 2008
@ Finland
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#29
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Actually saying it's 9.4 upfront is far more honest than the flash 10 spin on the Hero. I would have liked 10 better (I even brought that up is the specs thread), but hey. Where's that Adobe guy who was telling how Flash is supercool and better than HTML5 exactly because of the level of corporate support it's able to provide and that all flash version problems will go away with the OSP...
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2009-08-31
, 11:47
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Posts: 631 |
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@ Helsinki
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#30
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Rest assured that nobody is holding a better version of Flash somehow back in our internal dungeons. Flash support is definitely a very cool thing and we want to provide a good experience with it. As the Hero example shows, Flash 10 is not fully there yet for mobile devices. The rest is semantics. "Once" it is done, then it is done.
Flash support is definitely a very cool thing and we want to provide a good experience with it. As the Hero example shows, Flash 10 is not fully there yet for mobile devices. The rest is semantics. "Once" it is done, then it is done.
http://maemo.org/profile/view/qgil/ + http://qt-project.org