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Is there a section to talk about Java ME? Apps, etc. (6)
to General by Kalatti - 4 days, 18 hrs ago - more...
Larswad |
2013-12-30
, 11:06
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Posts: 385 |
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Joined on Dec 2009
@ Gothenburg, Sweden
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#211
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one thing I just don't understand in this discussion (not arguing, just don't understand). Why would the modem as a part of the SoC be a threat to the information integrity? I see it merely as a wcdma transport, if encrypted information goes in it just transfer it to the uplink, it goes over the rnc, to the downlink and to the modem of some other device. Sure, we don't know what goes on inside it, but if the data is encrypted it remains so the whole way. I suppose you say that there is a possibility or probability that it would relay the data to a third party (e.g. government)? In such case I suppose that weakness could be present through the whole chain, as usual. compromised servers etc. I don't get it. It's a passive component right? Are we making a hen of a feather? Trust me, I don't trust anybody or anything, but aren't we already out in the open?
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2013-12-30
, 11:44
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Community Council |
Posts: 4,920 |
Thanked: 12,867 times |
Joined on May 2012
@ Southerrn Finland
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#212
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Originally Posted by Larswad
There are designs where the modem (and other parts of the system which run closed firmware blobs) is a separate HW entity which is connected to the main processing engine via a serial bus. In these cases you can treat it just as you describe, a black box that transmits your data up and down.
one thing I just don't understand in this discussion (not arguing, just don't understand). Why would the modem as a part of the SoC be a threat to the information integrity? I see it merely as a wcdma transport, if encrypted information goes in it just transfer it to the uplink, it goes over the rnc, to the downlink and to the modem of some other device. Sure, we don't know what goes on inside it, but if the data is encrypted it remains so the whole way. I suppose you say that there is a possibility or probability that it would relay the data to a third party (e.g. government)? In such case I suppose that weakness could be present through the whole chain, as usual. compromised servers etc. I don't get it. It's a passive component right? Are we making a hen of a feather?
However, in some other designs the HW running closed blobs can directly access the flash&main memory of the device, and you have absolutely no guarantees on what it is reading/writing there (and when it does so)
The Qualcomm chipsets fall in the latter category
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2013-12-30
, 11:54
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Posts: 385 |
Thanked: 426 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Gothenburg, Sweden
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#213
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Originally Posted by juiceme
Well that sucks horseballs, in that case I guess it's a somewhat different story. Its another weakness, but probably even worse since it has unrestricted access to *anything*, regardless of on-disk encryption.
There are designs where the modem (and other parts of the system which run closed firmware blobs) is a separate HW entity which is connected to the main processing engine via a serial bus. In these cases you can treat it just as you describe, a black box that transmits your data up and down.
However, in some other designs the HW running closed blobs can directly access the flash&main memory of the device, and you have absolutely no guarantees on what it is reading/writing there (and when it does so)
The Qualcomm chipsets fall in the latter category
Guess there could be reasons that we have no idea about why they want their modem code closed.
Thanks for the explanation!
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2013-12-30
, 12:13
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#214
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Originally Posted by Larswad
Sure, if its compromised. Well, there you go, full access to whatever on a system-level.
Guess there could be reasons that we have no idea about why they want their modem code closed.
This is what I want to achieve :P
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2013-12-30
, 13:43
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#215
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To summarize possible ways to 'recover restore' Jolla:
1. We have images. Those can be restored using dd
a. On a working device in terminal. Allthough, this will give issues on some partitions, but, bootloader can be restored this way.
b. fastboot custom kernel with telnet access and using dd to restore backked up images.
2. Possibly using QPST tool (Windows, or perhaps Python script)
a. Not sure, but seems like images we have can be used restoring partitions. Windows only, unless Python tool can be used.
3. fastboot restoring images from SD-Card
a. There seems to be this option if entering fastboot mode without USB connected. We need to figure out what is expected on SD card here.
4. custom recovery
a. Jolla already made a simple recovery option to factory reset device. Can we create similar with backup/restore options etc.
1. We have images. Those can be restored using dd
a. On a working device in terminal. Allthough, this will give issues on some partitions, but, bootloader can be restored this way.
b. fastboot custom kernel with telnet access and using dd to restore backked up images.
2. Possibly using QPST tool (Windows, or perhaps Python script)
a. Not sure, but seems like images we have can be used restoring partitions. Windows only, unless Python tool can be used.
3. fastboot restoring images from SD-Card
a. There seems to be this option if entering fastboot mode without USB connected. We need to figure out what is expected on SD card here.
4. custom recovery
a. Jolla already made a simple recovery option to factory reset device. Can we create similar with backup/restore options etc.
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2013-12-30
, 13:47
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Posts: 728 |
Thanked: 1,217 times |
Joined on Oct 2011
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#216
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Originally Posted by nieldk
Well, this is possible, but in modems of cheaper phones (dumbphones as they call it). You need some sort of kit though.
Sure, if its compromised. Well, there you go, full access to whatever on a system-level.
This is what I want to achieve :P
I guess the fact that the modem is locked down so much demonstrates how weak the cellular protocols are. I saw some nasty things being done with full access to a modem.
It does bother me, however, that the modem part can do whatever it wants. Time to move away from Qualcomm? :-)
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2013-12-30
, 14:07
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Community Council |
Posts: 4,920 |
Thanked: 12,867 times |
Joined on May 2012
@ Southerrn Finland
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#217
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The gsm/wcdma protocol stack is somewhat trusting in both ends. There are some messages and structures that have integrity protection but in general it is assumed that neither RAN nor UE is delibrately malicious.
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2013-12-30
, 14:09
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Posts: 1 |
Thanked: 0 times |
Joined on Dec 2013
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#218
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Originally Posted by joerg_rw
Excellent idea to make your own blend.
For me not baltic sea but "will it blend"
Why not just keep the old bootloader to boot your image (factory reset) and for the the normal Jolla image, pinpoint which package that brings it in, modify it and share it ("ssu er unlockedboot").
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2013-12-30
, 14:14
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Posts: 113 |
Thanked: 303 times |
Joined on Dec 2013
@ Germany
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#219
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Originally Posted by ggabriel
Hello,
Have you considered asking this in together.jolla.com so that people can vote and Jolla can react?
good point, although I mailed it to jolla I created this two entries:
https://together.jolla.com/question/...even-with-git/
https://together.jolla.com/question/...re-components/
greetings
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2013-12-31
, 10:03
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Posts: 2,222 |
Thanked: 12,651 times |
Joined on Mar 2010
@ SOL 3
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#220
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Originally Posted by torgil
I don't have the time and no interest in a device that's not "unbrickable" and needs hacks or even exploits to work with it. I already abandoned damn harmattan due to this.
Excellent idea to make your own blend.
Why not just keep the old bootloader to boot your image (factory reset) and for the the normal Jolla image, pinpoint which package that brings it in, modify it and share it ("ssu er unlockedboot").
I could sell the thing on fealbay when Jolla wouldn't delay the red TOH which will cause significant loss of money when not included in such purchase.
Jolla for Murphy award.
/j
__________________
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
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