What role does the Maemo Community Council's play? - Page 3 - maemo.org

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Is there a section to talk about Java ME? Apps, etc. (3)
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	GeneralAntilles	2009-05-09 , 17:41
	Posts: 5,478 \| Thanked: 5,222 times \| Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL	#21

Originally Posted by qgil

- Why Twitter when we have Talk.

I blame qole and timsamoff.

Originally Posted by qgil

- I don't think the sprint tasks are actually Council related. Or better said, I don't think that council members taking tasks there take them because they are council members. All those tasks can be pushed by someone with the will, the time and the skills. Being elected changes nothing. It's actually the other way around: skilled people investing a lot of time in community tasks might end up easily being elected in the Council.

That's not what that line means. Rather, it means council-related tasks will be assigned and handled through the maemo.org sprints, not that the council members will get maemo.org tasks there (although that is true, too).

Originally Posted by qgil

Luckily, I think what you say is only partielly true. Being a Council member has its obligations but (at least as I see it as humble community member and voter) they are more in terms of qualitative contributions rather than volume of work. Still the qualitative contributions do take time and are not easy to handle (agreed!) specially when your head and your voice is more visible for time-consuming questions and criticism (that are part of the work, true).

In order to be effective on the council, you have to be informed. Being informed takes time and it takes effort. Whether or not you take the time to make yourself informed when you're not on the council is immaterial. When you're on the council, you have to be. Your job as facilitator requires it.

If you're not informed about what's going on in the different sectors of the community, you can't possibly be expected to communicate this information around, or use it to help connect the right people on the right projects.

Originally Posted by qgil

But is all this busy-ness tied to the council membership? I don't think so, and this is why I think it's important to separate maemo.org sprints (where everybody can join and commit to a task) from pure council work (that only you 5 guys will do).

We decided to piggyback on the maemo.org sprints for council-related stuff to save time and energy.

Originally Posted by qgil

I claim 3-4h a week as an average is enough to be a good council member. Some weeks you get more work, some others there is less happening. [The number comes from the 1001 discussions in the GNOME Foundation board and other organizations where active and busy people are elected and can't avoid being more active and more busy...]

That's 3-4 hours a week on top of whatever other activities you're doing (which makes it slightly more weighty than 3-4 hours alone). Nobody who isn't already investing time in the community is ever going to get elected to the council, and council work is going to add extra time (and stress) on top of your existing efforts.

Really, my real point is that it's not an easy position and not something anybody should consider taking on lightly. I really don't want to see the day when someone gets elected who was planning on investing no additional time or effort in the position.

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	qgil	2009-05-09 , 17:45
	Posts: 3,105 \| Thanked: 11,088 times \| Joined on Jul 2007 @ Mountain View (CA, USA)	#22

One thing the council and only the council did was to hire the new maemo.org debmaster. And that was not an easy task.

A public discussion and poll with all the candidates for the position doesn't sound like a good idea. It's one thing that made sense to delegate to the council as representatives of the community.

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	qgil	2009-05-09 , 17:53
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Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles

In order to be effective on the council, you have to be informed.

Sure, but this doesn't mean that all members need to follow all the channels and all the topics. Not doing that saves time and also forces yourselves to report better (to the rest of council members and the community) on what is really relevant in the areas you are focusing.

For instance, Kees is in maemo-devel mostly and he is barely in tmo. And that's totally fine, as long as he is able to summarize (e.g. in the council blog) what is going on from a developer point of view.

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	penguinbait	2009-05-09 , 18:17
	Posts: 3,096 \| Thanked: 1,525 times \| Joined on Jan 2006 @ Michigan, USA	#24

Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles

See the reply I made to this point earlier. You lose people who don't use the forums when you move away from the mailing lists. Subscribing to a mailing list wont kill anybody.

So your afraid to lose a few people at the risk of involving many more people. It seems like if they are going to participate, the form that communication comes in would not stop them. Additionally, IS THIS TWO WAY INTEGRATION? If so, this is not really a problem, this will solve my gripe

Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles

I'm against a Java IRC client of a variety of reasons (one, in particular, is because your client has brought in a number of spammers I've had to kick from the channel on multiple occasions ).

Well, it seems like this could be integrated into the login ID and only available to the users that login? Even if the login was not integrated, just making that page only available to logged in user would work too?

Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles

Openness and transparency has been our primary goal since the council's inception last year. This does not, however, mean that every single issue needs to be posted to a half-dozen different communications channels.

And nobody thinks they should, but specific formal communication to me, should come in one form, in one place, making it easier for the USER community to follow

Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles

No, an absolute statement like that is completely untrue.

I will just leave this alone, for fear of going off topic

All this said, not everyone one needs to be told everything, but if there is a single place to go, to see formal council communication I fail to see how this is a bad thing. So I go to talk, click on council, then, have some breakouts, development, community involvment, whatever. Then larger user community could have visibility into the topics and contribute easily in one place.

Additionally wouldn't it be easier for council to just use one form for official communication?

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To all my Maemo friends. I will no longer be monitoring any of my threads here on a regular basis. I am no longer supporting anything I did under maemo at maemo.org. If you need some help with something you can reach me at tablethacker.com or www.facebook.com/penguinbait. I have disabled my PM's here, and removed myself from Council email and Community mailing list. There has been some fun times, see you around.

Last edited by penguinbait; 2009-05-09 at 19:28.

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	daperl	2009-05-09 , 18:22
	Posts: 2,427 \| Thanked: 2,986 times \| Joined on Dec 2007	#25

Originally Posted by timsamoff

http://www.raiden.net/articles/inter...unity_council/

Great read. Even while I continue to remain skeptical, I find your level headed optimism infectious.

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	GeneralAntilles	2009-05-09 , 18:30
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Originally Posted by penguinbait

Additionally wouldn't it be easier for council to just use one form for official communication?

On this note, can you please learn how to use quotes so I can actually respond to your points?

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	mullf	2009-05-09 , 18:43
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Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles

On this note, can you please learn how to use quotes so I can actually respond to your points?

That's why God invented copy and paste.

You mean to make it EASIER to respond to his points.

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	GeneralAntilles	2009-05-09 , 18:46
	Posts: 5,478 \| Thanked: 5,222 times \| Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL	#28

Originally Posted by mullf

That's why God invented copy and paste.

penguinbait doesn't want to be inconvenienced by mailing lists, I don't want to be inconvenienced by having to format his posts for him so I can respond to them.

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	penguinbait	2009-05-09 , 19:29
	Posts: 3,096 \| Thanked: 1,525 times \| Joined on Jan 2006 @ Michigan, USA	#29

Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles

penguinbait doesn't want to be inconvenienced by mailing lists, I don't want to be inconvenienced by having to format his posts for him so I can respond to them.

I fixed that for you, now lets please not start going down this path, WE have been doing so well today

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	GeneralAntilles	2009-05-09 , 19:41
	Posts: 5,478 \| Thanked: 5,222 times \| Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL	#30

Originally Posted by penguinbait

So your afraid to lose a few people at the risk of involving many more people. It seems like if they are going to participate, the form that communication comes in would not stop them.

The same goes for the people here and the lists. This isn't a one-sided issue.

Originally Posted by penguinbait

Additionally, IS THIS TWO WAY INTEGRATION? If so, this is not really a problem, this will solve my gripe

That's the plan, yes, but there are technical hurdles here that I haven't yet discussed with the people who are likely to be implementing it, so I don't know whether they can be overcome. . . .

Originally Posted by penguinbait

Well, it seems like this could be integrated into the login ID and only available to the users that login? Even if the login was not integrated, just making that page only available to logged in user would work too?

Sure, that might be an option, but that doesn't help much on the Freenode side of things.

Originally Posted by penguinbait

And nobody thinks they should, but specific formal communication to me, should come in one form, in one place, making it easier for the USER community to follow

Then why isn't -community an option?

Originally Posted by penguinbait