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2013-12-14
, 09:30
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Posts: 7,074 |
Thanked: 9,069 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
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#42
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Originally Posted by gerbick
Have you seen the list of Ubuntu? When/if they enter market it will be harder for jolla.
It really depends if Win8 RT or Windows Phone was going to appeal to your development team, your advertising team and ultimately, your future customers.
Given how both have been selling, I'd say that's a stretch. So far only Nokia has shown interest in WP8 and Win8 RT. Prior "partners" have discontinued their endeavors in both for the most part.
Jolla will have to differentiate themselves. I think they have enough points to do so easily.
__________________
Do something for the climate today! Anything!
I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...
Do something for the climate today! Anything!
I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...
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2013-12-14
, 11:05
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Posts: 207 |
Thanked: 552 times |
Joined on Jul 2011
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#43
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I think carriers want a platform that enables them to embed their own services. They'll have to weigh up the cost of a license for an OS against how much they could make from controlling their own 'ecosystem'.
Is Ubuntu Touch going to be completely open source? Jolla seem to be making a lot of noise about open source but it seems they're not really committed to it.
A fully open OS could gain a lot of favour with countries/individuals not too keen on being spied on by the USA. I guess some will have been duped by the mock outrage of Apple, Google and Microsoft into believing they were pawns rather than willing participants in the Prism scandal but they'll still be plenty of others who'll prefer a device with an OS that's open, transparent and not North American.
Is Ubuntu Touch going to be completely open source? Jolla seem to be making a lot of noise about open source but it seems they're not really committed to it.
A fully open OS could gain a lot of favour with countries/individuals not too keen on being spied on by the USA. I guess some will have been duped by the mock outrage of Apple, Google and Microsoft into believing they were pawns rather than willing participants in the Prism scandal but they'll still be plenty of others who'll prefer a device with an OS that's open, transparent and not North American.
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2013-12-14
, 11:40
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Posts: 7,074 |
Thanked: 9,069 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
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#44
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Originally Posted by switch-hitter
No, the code is not fully open (if that is what you mean with open)in the same way as sailfish or any other commercial OS have closed code. But it's fully cool because I hope they going for High end devices.
I think carriers want a platform that enables them to embed their own services. They'll have to weigh up the cost of a license for an OS against how much they could make from controlling their own 'ecosystem'.
Is Ubuntu Touch going to be completely open source? Jolla seem to be making a lot of noise about open source but it seems they're not really committed to it.
A fully open OS could gain a lot of favour with countries/individuals not too keen on being spied on by the USA. I guess some will have been duped by the mock outrage of Apple, Google and Microsoft into believing they were pawns rather than willing participants in the Prism scandal but they'll still be plenty of others who'll prefer a device with an OS that's open, transparent and not North American.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-576...phone-partner/
I hope Sail and ubuntu can coexists and leave the fanboys talk aside.An I hope also Sailfish goes highend for next device and skip this other half. It would be cool if the user could buy One high end device and switch between Ubuntu and sail.
__________________
Do something for the climate today! Anything!
I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...
Do something for the climate today! Anything!
I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...
Last edited by Dave999; 2013-12-14 at 14:04.
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2013-12-14
, 14:31
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Thanked: 0 times |
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#45
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Originally Posted by switch-hitter
All in the name of control.
I think carriers want a platform that enables them to embed their own services. They'll have to weigh up the cost of a license for an OS against how much they could make from controlling their own 'ecosystem'.
Is Ubuntu Touch going to be completely open source? Jolla seem to be making a lot of noise about open source but it seems they're not really committed to it.
A fully open OS could gain a lot of favour with countries/individuals not too keen on being spied on by the USA. I guess some will have been duped by the mock outrage of Apple, Google and Microsoft into believing they were pawns rather than willing participants in the Prism scandal but they'll still be plenty of others who'll prefer a device with an OS that's open, transparent and not North American.
I couldn't care less where the OS comes from. North America, Japan, China, Norway, Finland, your mother's purse. I truly don't give two ****s and pointing to the North American market as the catalyst; then MeeGo (Intel backing) should be a no-go too, right?
That means no-go on Jolla too transitively. Because all they've done would be to add the presentational layer (oversimplifying a **** ton here) on top of the Intel/Nokia (North America company/North American handset division owned company by now) Linux Foundation (biggest office is in North America - San Francisco).
Innovation, community, meritocracy and openness does not need to come from one continent.
Enough talk. Where's the damn options? Pointing fingers produce absolutely nothing but more idle conversation.
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2013-12-14
, 14:45
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Posts: 861 |
Thanked: 734 times |
Joined on Jan 2008
@ Nomadic
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#46
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Originally Posted by gerbick
+1, Like, Thanks, Kudos, HT, RT, and yup
All in the name of control.
No mobile OS is fully open source. My expectations for that have disappeared.
A fully open source device might be ideal, but the time for dreams are over. Carriers want to brand and lock it down, governments want backdoors so they can track and snoop; nerds want it open but can't agree about a damn thing and meanwhile the products we tend to use aren't really open despite promises and use of open code. Most of it is never done out in the open. But you can't do that and make money... yet.
I couldn't care less where the OS comes from. North America, Japan, China, Norway, Finland, your mother's purse. I truly don't give two ****s and pointing to the North American market as the catalyst; then MeeGo (Intel backing) should be a no-go too, right?
That means no-go on Jolla too transitively. Because all they've done would be to add the presentational layer (oversimplifying a **** ton here) on top of the Intel/Nokia (North America company/North American handset division owned company by now) Linux Foundation (biggest office is in North America - San Francisco).
Innovation, community, meritocracy and openness does not need to come from one continent.
Enough talk. Where's the damn options? Pointing fingers produce absolutely nothing but more idle conversation.
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2013-12-14
, 15:20
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Thanked: 0 times |
Joined on
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#47
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Originally Posted by ARJWright
Thanks for overlooking my unintended harshness in my tone.
+1, Like, Thanks, Kudos, HT, RT, and yup
I just think it's time folks talk about options, not idle chatter about how we've allowed our devices, operating systems and gadgets to become a portal to our lives for our government agencies...
At this rate, I don't see a reason to keep a smartphone.
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2013-12-15
, 10:45
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Posts: 207 |
Thanked: 552 times |
Joined on Jul 2011
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#48
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Originally Posted by gerbick
Don't Samsung open source the drivers for their hardware? I'm sure I read on xda-developer they do. They're also rumoured to be planning to use their own Exynos processors in future Galaxy devices. Samsung have also stated they want Tizen and Firefox OS to work as allies. Maybe the dream is not quite dead yet.
A fully open source device might be ideal, but the time for dreams are over.
Originally Posted by gerbick
NOKIA were not North American when they were working on MeeGo, in fact it was a North American originating from a company implicated in the Prism scandal that killed three open source operating systems and replaced them with a less desirable, locked down, closed source proprietary one from said company. Unfortunately Elop's actions make more sense as an NSA conspiracy theory than they did as a business strategy.
That means no-go on Jolla too transitively. Because all they've done would be to add the presentational layer (oversimplifying a **** ton here) on top of the Intel/Nokia (North America company/North American handset division owned company by now) Linux Foundation (biggest office is in North America - San Francisco).
According to Snowden closed source proprietary operating systems from the US have back doors as do closed source proprietary encryption methods used widely on the web. Who knows, North American companies that support open source, like Intel, may get kudos for being the resistance rather than being collaborators. I'm sure at least some of the US public must be angry about the violation of their civil liberties too. I certainly dislike the way hugely exaggerated threats of the enemy within are being used to turn Britain into an authoritarian surveillance state.
This is not finger pointing, it's reality. EU leaders are now saying US cloud services are not to be trusted, data centres should be localised, etc... and these are supposedly US allies. The BRIC countries are talking about building a whole new networking infrastructure to make sure they can bypass the USA completely.
Originally Posted by gerbick
Agreed, that's why it would be nice to have. Unfortunately it's the antithesis of what's happening in the mobile market.
Innovation, community, meritocracy and openness does not need to come from one continent.
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2013-12-15
, 11:21
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#49
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Samsung hasn't opened up Touchwiz, for instance. They've distributed their offerings that were "open" but in the end, it's an unlocked bootloader for the most part. Again, this is me typically over-simplifying things, but it's not fully open.
Pretty much the same as Harmattan on the N9 and Sailfish on Jolla - the UI is not open. There are other parts that are not fully open, but they're specific to GSM chipsets that Samsung doesn't control. But it's still not fully open if you get my gist.
I did say Nokia handset division was owned by a North American company right now. Conexant (Prism chipset I assume you're talking about) is indeed a North American company. Guess I'm making your point and not my own it seems.
I guess, I have to ask, why does it truly matter? What are the options? The Israeli initiated ICQ - now owned by Russians - for IM instead of the Swedish/Estonian/Danish (and others) Skype that's now owned by a North American company? I'm up for options, but as it stands, the two I used to use the most (see above) weren't originally started by North American companies yet they're both easily snooped upon by the NSA.
How so? Read more about what Snowden has said. They don't truly need backdoors. They just need access to the traffic. I remember when in 2003 or so it was made apparent that AT&T and the NSA were working together on any electronic communication. Or when the UK based Echelon was listening to any electronic communication - no backdoors, straight snooping. Or when Carnivore was starting up and it also was spying on US communications. Both of those last two were the mid-1990's.
Backdoors are useful when there's encryption involved or they need to re-route the communication without you knowing - like this. But that's not a North American endeavor, more than likely bots and identity theft.
I get your anti-North American bias. Hell, I encourage it. Do it alone, without Intel, without Microsoft, relocate the Linux Foundation, pull out of Google, disallow Texas Instruments (goodbye OMAP). Bolster the British ARM processor, overlook the snooping North Americans, produce something that's successful and show the way.
But just, for the love of God, stop talking about it. Just do it. I'm actually all for it, to be honest. But as it goes, the warning signs have been there for 20+ years. People just didn't listen. They want convenience over learning how to do things. One button to rule them all...
But instead of bickering, do it. Right now, Linux geeks can't (for the most part) even agree whether or not "free" means it doesn't cost anything (FOSS) or it means you have freedom (think: Stallman - yet another North American... oh noes) and incessantly correct GNU/Linux versus Linux in semantic laden verbal battles that mean absolutely nothing other than just being able to say "I was right, you were wrong".
That part of the equation bothers me to no end. It solves nothing, just allows people to say something and believe in it, not do anything.
I hope Brazil gets it right, disconnects from the US for Internet access, locks them out and shows everybody how it's done...
/rant
Pretty much the same as Harmattan on the N9 and Sailfish on Jolla - the UI is not open. There are other parts that are not fully open, but they're specific to GSM chipsets that Samsung doesn't control. But it's still not fully open if you get my gist.
I did say Nokia handset division was owned by a North American company right now. Conexant (Prism chipset I assume you're talking about) is indeed a North American company. Guess I'm making your point and not my own it seems.
I guess, I have to ask, why does it truly matter? What are the options? The Israeli initiated ICQ - now owned by Russians - for IM instead of the Swedish/Estonian/Danish (and others) Skype that's now owned by a North American company? I'm up for options, but as it stands, the two I used to use the most (see above) weren't originally started by North American companies yet they're both easily snooped upon by the NSA.
How so? Read more about what Snowden has said. They don't truly need backdoors. They just need access to the traffic. I remember when in 2003 or so it was made apparent that AT&T and the NSA were working together on any electronic communication. Or when the UK based Echelon was listening to any electronic communication - no backdoors, straight snooping. Or when Carnivore was starting up and it also was spying on US communications. Both of those last two were the mid-1990's.
Backdoors are useful when there's encryption involved or they need to re-route the communication without you knowing - like this. But that's not a North American endeavor, more than likely bots and identity theft.
I get your anti-North American bias. Hell, I encourage it. Do it alone, without Intel, without Microsoft, relocate the Linux Foundation, pull out of Google, disallow Texas Instruments (goodbye OMAP). Bolster the British ARM processor, overlook the snooping North Americans, produce something that's successful and show the way.
But just, for the love of God, stop talking about it. Just do it. I'm actually all for it, to be honest. But as it goes, the warning signs have been there for 20+ years. People just didn't listen. They want convenience over learning how to do things. One button to rule them all...
But instead of bickering, do it. Right now, Linux geeks can't (for the most part) even agree whether or not "free" means it doesn't cost anything (FOSS) or it means you have freedom (think: Stallman - yet another North American... oh noes) and incessantly correct GNU/Linux versus Linux in semantic laden verbal battles that mean absolutely nothing other than just being able to say "I was right, you were wrong".
That part of the equation bothers me to no end. It solves nothing, just allows people to say something and believe in it, not do anything.
I hope Brazil gets it right, disconnects from the US for Internet access, locks them out and shows everybody how it's done...
/rant
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2013-12-23
, 12:23
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Posts: 1,195 |
Thanked: 2,708 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
@ Hanoi
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#50
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Feb 2013:
"Jolla cofounder and CEO Marc Dillon claims that many of China’s mobile users are sick of Android. “Standing out is really important in Chinese culture,” he says."
http://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyols...d-alternative/
Dec 2013, after years of negotiation. China Mobile goes iPhone.
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2013...y-17-2014.html
Now Jolla just needs to continue the negotiations and wait a couple of years until the Chinese are also sick and tired of iOS.
Or are they already?
"Jolla cofounder and CEO Marc Dillon claims that many of China’s mobile users are sick of Android. “Standing out is really important in Chinese culture,” he says."
http://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyols...d-alternative/
Dec 2013, after years of negotiation. China Mobile goes iPhone.
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2013...y-17-2014.html
Now Jolla just needs to continue the negotiations and wait a couple of years until the Chinese are also sick and tired of iOS.
Or are they already?
Given how both have been selling, I'd say that's a stretch. So far only Nokia has shown interest in WP8 and Win8 RT. Prior "partners" have discontinued their endeavors in both for the most part.
Jolla will have to differentiate themselves. I think they have enough points to do so easily.