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2013-10-17
, 22:45
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Posts: 74 |
Thanked: 68 times |
Joined on Dec 2011
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#2
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Originally Posted by jalyst
I am not insisting in any way that Jolla is implementing back-doors into SailFish. I briefly stated a few of my concerns to one of the upper level gents (moving operations to China, working with Chinese government, what that would mean et cetera). My last question to him: "What would administrators within Jolla do if requested to implement surveillance features within the OS?". He very brusquely replied, "We will observe any and all laws in operating markets".
OT here, but can you be more specific about what you're saying above in this thread:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90142&page=133
Of course, I am no fool and understand that such is business. I would never assume someone representing a sizable company with investors to say anything else. What bothered me was the terseness with which he replied. My prime interest in Jolla was as a company apart who was greatly interested with users such as ourselves. Ideally, I would have at least liked to hear "hopefully it would never come to that". To be clear and concise: I will not innately support and champion a company simply because it is involved with Linux and semi-opensource projects. If those running Jolla are taken with the prospect of becoming giants in the communication industry and entwine themselves with Chinese bodies associated with the government to get there, meanwhile abandoning everything many of us hoped Jolla would be - then I have no more interest in Jolla than I would Microsoft building something based on CentOS or Google with the Linux kernel. Indeed, although I use the N900 daily I cannot say I am thrilled with it. It is a fortunate byproduct of a corporation trying something new.
Which leads me to the following: Gentlemen working on this Neo900 project: My money is yours. If you think of something better - TI Blaze on steroids meets BSD for instance (I can dream you bastards!) - and you are brave (read: crazy) enough to pursue it - then you'll have even more of my money. And - I'll help with the security.
Now! To your workbench! Haste! I want it yesterday!
-Abe
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2013-10-18
, 06:16
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Posts: 74 |
Thanked: 68 times |
Joined on Dec 2011
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#3
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Originally Posted by jalyst
I made the response where I did as I wanted readers of my previous post to easily be able to see my follow up. I'll not pursue trifles though.
As I said, it was more appropriate to have made the response in the on-topic thread.
So your claims/assertions are all pure conjecture/speculation, nothing solid it seems.
I made neither claims or assertions. It would be obvious to anyone with a grasp of the English language that all I provided was purely perspective. My reference to the statement a member of Jolla made is absolutely true.
Your tone is likened to the typical egos that frequent message boards. I don't know if this is your usual attitude or if your caustic reply was due to excessive enthusiasm for Jolla. If you are passionate about Jolla, please try to express it in a more peaceful manner. Adults should be able to disagree without tension. Yours is exactly the kind of retort that yields ridiculous page long quarrels.
Friends?
Abe
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2013-10-18
, 09:12
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Posts: 2,222 |
Thanked: 12,651 times |
Joined on Mar 2010
@ SOL 3
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#4
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I don't find it any funny how this is again going completely off-topic. I'd prefer both of you deleting or moving your posts elsewhere (pro-tip: you can edit and even delete old posts)
While Abe just gave a bit of background info to explain why he likes Neo900, it now starts about discussing details of that background info in this thread. This thread is NOT about Jolla or any OS! For Jolla device there's a whole category where you can start new threads, for OS discussions there's FPTF thread linked to in post#1 of this thread.
@old_abe: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ze#post1375110
/j
Last edited by joerg_rw; 2013-10-18 at 09:34.
While Abe just gave a bit of background info to explain why he likes Neo900, it now starts about discussing details of that background info in this thread. This thread is NOT about Jolla or any OS! For Jolla device there's a whole category where you can start new threads, for OS discussions there's FPTF thread linked to in post#1 of this thread.
@old_abe: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ze#post1375110
/j
__________________
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Last edited by joerg_rw; 2013-10-18 at 09:34.
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2013-10-18
, 10:24
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Posts: 74 |
Thanked: 68 times |
Joined on Dec 2011
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#5
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Originally Posted by jalyst
Can you not just stop? You've done nothing but added yet another snide remark to joerg_rw's thread following the last one you deleted which I did read but chose to ignore despite it being filled with bitter banter. Just stop.
Deleted my posts, perhaps now he can do the reasonable thing & move his Sailfish(Jolla) responses to where it was originally/rightly suggested.
I will then re-paste my responses there....
I have no interest in pursuing anything with you in the thread you suggested or any other thread for that matter.
Joerg, I apologize for being party to this. I never reply to such things but I feel that my initial opinions concerning Jolla were reasonable as they explained my support of this project. I don't want this project (that I have been waiting two years for) to be sidetracked by this nonsense. I'll gladly delete the post previous to this one (as well as this one) and remove references to Jolla in my earlier posts although I do think that is essentially censoring my opinions as a response to someone not being able to politely disagree with them.
Again, I apologize. Now, please go make my motherboard.
By the way, after reading some of the demands/requests/expectations made by some people, I'd like to follow suit by requesting the Snapdragon 800 be integrated alongside a retractable knife, toothpick, and magnifying glass. Please get on that.
Abe
Last edited by Old Abe; 2013-10-18 at 10:39.
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2013-10-18
, 11:14
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Moderator |
Posts: 5,320 |
Thanked: 4,464 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
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#6
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@Mods, please move #47/48/49/51/52 to one of the lengthy Sailfish(Jolla) water-cooler threads, I'll reinsert my deleted responses there.
I simply asked you to clarify your points of contention in more detail, it was not meant as some kind of personal attack.
You obliged to do so (in the wrong thread) but didn't do it effectively at all, I said "okay so you've not really explained all your contentions"*, then you go further off-tangent on personal attacks.
*Admittedly in a brief/terse way, but it was still a correct observation & not intended to be rude/personal at the time.
Apologies if unintended offence was caused by it, but I don't apologise for my subsequent remarks in reaction to your subsequent posts.
Last edited by jalyst; 2013-10-18 at 12:15.
Originally Posted by Old Abe
Further character assassination just for the sake of it, rather than just simply explaining your vague perspective in more detail, that seems to be all you're good for.
Can you not just stop? You've done nothing but added yet another snide remark to joerg_rw's thread following the last one you deleted which I did read but chose to ignore despite it being filled with bitter banter. Just stop.
I simply asked you to clarify your points of contention in more detail, it was not meant as some kind of personal attack.
You obliged to do so (in the wrong thread) but didn't do it effectively at all, I said "okay so you've not really explained all your contentions"*, then you go further off-tangent on personal attacks.
*Admittedly in a brief/terse way, but it was still a correct observation & not intended to be rude/personal at the time.
Apologies if unintended offence was caused by it, but I don't apologise for my subsequent remarks in reaction to your subsequent posts.
Last edited by jalyst; 2013-10-18 at 12:15.
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2013-10-18
, 11:50
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Posts: 2,222 |
Thanked: 12,651 times |
Joined on Mar 2010
@ SOL 3
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#7
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@mods: could you please delete or move posts #847-#852, and this one? And next two. SIGH!
Thanks!
Last edited by joerg_rw; 2013-10-18 at 12:25.
Thanks!
__________________
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Last edited by joerg_rw; 2013-10-18 at 12:25.
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2013-10-18
, 12:12
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Posts: 74 |
Thanked: 68 times |
Joined on Dec 2011
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#8
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Originally Posted by jalyst
Well, for someone with such a haughty disposition I didn't expect you to play the coy ingénue.
Further character assassination just for the sake of it, rather than just simply explaining your vague perspective in more detail, that seems to be all you're good for.
I simply asked you to clarify your points of contention in more detail, it was not meant as some kind of personal attack...
You obliged to do so (in the wrong thread) but didn't do it effectively at all, I said "okay so you've not really explained all your contentions"*, then you go further off-tangent on personal attacks.
*Admittedly in a brief/terse way, but it was still a correct observation & not intended to be rude/personal at the time.
Apologies if unintended offence was caused by it, but I don't apologise for my subsequent remarks in reaction to your subsequent posts.
Your posts began curt, then became biting and patronizing, and then you spiraled right down into childishness. Don't try to deceive the readers now that you have removed your utterly crass post.
And as for your ridiculously hollow, contrived "apology" - I receive it in the manner with which it was given.
" okay so you've not really explained all your contentions* " - What a coy summary of your post. Completely contrived to make yourself appear level headed and courteous. Of course, after having realized that there are those who have read your posting, you decided you couldn't fully get away with that wording so you (ridiculously) added an addendum: "*Admittedly in a brief/terse way".
I suppose you can continue this charade as your silly and rude post is gone now but I think the discerning sort won't be fooled.
It has been a long time since I let myself be drawn in by an "Internet Ego" but I just happened to have my fill recently.
Joerg, please suspend my account for a while to remind me not to feed trolls again but please quiet the troll also for the greater good. I couldn't stay my tongue once he started misrepresenting his statements and playing coy. I suppose I value integrity too much.
Absolutely ridiculous and embarrassing.
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2013-10-18
, 12:18
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Moderator |
Posts: 5,320 |
Thanked: 4,464 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
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#9
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Originally Posted by Old Abe
More personal attacks...
Well, for someone with such a haughty disposition I didn't expect you to play the coy ingénue.
Your posts began curt,
then became biting and patronizing
and then you spiraled right down into childishness
Don't try to deceive the readers now that you have removed your utterly crass post.
Originally Posted by Old Abe
That can be easily done with a link to your post in the on-topic thread, maybe you'll try doing that this time round.
I made the response where I did as I wanted readers of my previous post to easily be able to see my follow up. I'll not pursue trifles though.
I made neither claims or assertions. It would be obvious to anyone with a grasp of the English language that all I provided was purely perspective.
Originally Posted by Old Abe
I did qualify "claims" with "assertion", assertion has quite a different meaning to claims, which is why I qualified claims with it.
The Jolla project took a direction I did not like That, coupled with other directions the project has taken stifled my interest. I have similar concerns with Canonical's ventures.
That seems to have been lost on you... The only point you did address:
Originally Posted by Old Abe
Amounts to little more than a "he said & she said" account, plus some more rambling, no actual proof of what you're so "concerned" about.
and after speaking with one of the heads of the project and asking him about the position the team would take if certain powers were to request certain "features" be placed into the system (I am a security consultant and generally very fond of personal liberties and privacy - this is my main motivation for open source) I was less than thrilled with his response.
Aside from that, last I checked HK isn't governed by mainland China, it's still effectively a independent state whose (conventional) defence is provided by the mainland.
My reference to the statement a member of Jolla made is absolutely true.
Your tone is likened to the typical egos that frequent message boards. I don't know if this is your usual attitude or if your caustic reply was due to excessive enthusiasm for Jolla. If you are passionate about Jolla, please try to express it in a more peaceful manner. Adults should be able to disagree without tension. Yours is exactly the kind of retort that yields ridiculous page long quarrels.
Friends?
Originally Posted by Old Abe
Here it is for posterity, I stand by what I said though...
"okay so you've not really explained all your contentions* " - What a coy summary of your post. Completely contrived to make yourself appear level headed and courteous.
Of course, after having realized that there are those who have read your posting, you decided you couldn't fully get away with that wording so you (ridiculously) added an addendum: "*Admittedly in a brief/terse way".
I suppose you can continue this charade as your silly and rude post is gone now but I think the discerning sort won't be fooled.
As I said, it was more appropriate to have made the response in the on-topic thread.
So your claims/assertions are all pure conjecture/speculation, nothing solid it seems.
And as for your ridiculously hollow, contrived "apology" - I receive it in the manner with which it was given. It has been a long time since I let myself be drawn in by an "Internet Ego" but I just happened to have my fill recently. Joerg, please suspend my account for a while to remind me not to feed trolls again but please quiet the troll also for the greater good. I couldn't stay my tongue once he started misrepresenting his statements and playing coy. I suppose I value integrity too much. Absolutely ridiculous and embarrassing.
It's unfortunate you strayed so far from what was originally a very simple request, upon which you initially seemed prepared to oblige.
Last edited by jalyst; 2013-10-18 at 12:47.
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2013-10-18
, 12:37
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Posts: 74 |
Thanked: 68 times |
Joined on Dec 2011
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#10
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This guy is out of control. He was rude and when given a chance to retreat, he doubled his efforts. He is too stubborn to right himself.
I really don't think I am being prideful. I believe I was patient. I admit to being foolish for prolonging this, however.
I know the guy is far more active in this community but please don't let that hold weight. He would likely start treating this forum as even more of a pissing ground.
I sincerely apologize for doing this to your thread and project, Joerg. Please delete all of my posts.
I really don't think I am being prideful. I believe I was patient. I admit to being foolish for prolonging this, however.
I know the guy is far more active in this community but please don't let that hold weight. He would likely start treating this forum as even more of a pissing ground.
I sincerely apologize for doing this to your thread and project, Joerg. Please delete all of my posts.
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90142&page=133
Last edited by jalyst; 2013-10-17 at 19:15.