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frethop's Avatar
Posts: 283 | Thanked: 60 times | Joined on Nov 2005 @ It's dark in here. I hear laughing.
#21
As a full-time reader, part-time contributor, in this forum, I have learned to respect many of you who have posted their thoughts and knowledge and opinions here. Since the days I started lusting after the 770, this forum has been a great source of information and understanding for me. Since I assume it is this way for others, I would ask for patience from all of you tempted to put the entire forum on your ignore list. Stay on a little longer.

In addition, consider this. Those who personally attack others do so for attention (sometimes out of spite or revenge, but mostly for attention). They want to be in the middle of the explosive kind of flame wars we have seen here of late. If we all truly ignore those who personally attack -- simply don't take the bait, swallow the urge to lecture, or realize you don't have to defend yourself -- they will go away. Or at least we can raise the signal-to-noise ratio.

Thanks to Reggie for working on order in the forum. This forum and its contributors are worth it.

-F
 
Posts: 5,795 | Thanked: 3,148 times | Joined on Feb 2007 @ Agoura Hills Calif
#22
I am not willing to participate in a system in which my behavior is "scored". This seems childish to me. It has been stated that such a system will be implemented soon. When it is, my participation here will end.
 
Texrat's Avatar
Posts: 11,700 | Thanked: 10,015 times | Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA
#23
Originally Posted by geneven View Post
I find it disturbing when one party to an unnecessary squabble uses his power to shut down the other side. That is what I think is happening in this case.

You are seriously miscontruing the situation. Reggie is the one invoking power.
 
Karel Jansens's Avatar
Posts: 3,220 | Thanked: 326 times | Joined on Oct 2005 @ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)
#24
Originally Posted by geneven View Post
I am not willing to participate in a system in which my behavior is "scored". This seems childish to me. It has been stated that such a system will be implemented soon. When it is, my participation here will end.
I am personally thinking very hard about what I am to do. I hate nanny-organisations with a vengeance, but unfortunately am unable to escape most of them.

We'll see...
 
Texrat's Avatar
Posts: 11,700 | Thanked: 10,015 times | Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA
#25
I find the opposition to Reggie's proposal interesting. He didn't say he's going to clamp down with a totalitarian fist. He said personal attacks won't be tolerated.

I'm fine with that. There's no need for that sort of engagement. And I have to wonder how those complaining would feel if THEY were the target of some angry, obsessive poster. If Ignore alone sufficed, that would be great. But again: as long as the target is the only one using it, and the troublemaker is hyperactive, then Ignore doesn't work. And as another poster wisely pointed out, newcomers (and we're having a steady stream) don't have the troublemakers on ignore, and can be put off by the sort of crap the Skype thread endured.

And along those lines, I also find it interesting that I'm catching some crap for that debacle. Anyone who objectively examines that mess can easily see I was exercising restraint (confirmed to me by some PMs). Despite what's been said, I never started off by attacking the person responsible for this nonsense-- I simply expressed doubt over a date. And for that a flamewar ensues, one in which you'll kindly note was engaged in by numerous people responding to the troublemaker. If I'm going to be blamed for doubting a date, well, then we've got more to worry about than a few rules.

Some of you say you'll quit if Reggie enacts a little overdue decorum. How do you think *I* feel being the target of unwarranted hostility? Should I stick around for that???

Let's all be adults here. I'll definitely behave myself as long as I don't have to put up with any ridiculous bs that I don't think the complainers would like.

/rant
 
Posts: 52 | Thanked: 2 times | Joined on May 2007 @ Northeast USA
#26
Hello,

I am new here, and as such have refrained from saying anything... but this is getting a bit ridiculous. convoluted hit the nail on the head with his comment about new users and google searches pointing people to these forums...

2 weeks ago I started looking here because I was thinking about investing in an n800. It was this site and maemo.org that put me over the edge to buy one. Mainly because I said to myself, hey this is reminiscent of the early days of palm os, they have an intelligent community of users and developers who like this device and what nokia is trying to do in the market and who understand the benefits of open.... everyone seemed helpful and knowledgable...

Shortly after the flamewar started I will confess I found it very entertaining, but honestly this forum should be informative more than it is entertaining.

As for nanny rules and powers governing your free speech, we have this in society already, and frankly we need it here... just like there are laws against slander and libel and yelling "fire!" falsely in a crowded place, so must there be some degree of enforcement here in the forums or it ceases to function as it should.

The truely funny thing is these "rules" don't prevent flamewars, they just prevent "personal attacks" (as the title of this thread/announcement indicates.... this requires some degree of creativity and thoughtfulness to go into your replies, instead of attacking some one directly... attack what they are saying....

Anyway that was my 2 cents... I find this forum to be a valued resource and one I check on a daily basis.... I am not fearful of any new rules that go into effect because honestly the moderator/founder's postings on this subject seem very tempered and controled... this forum appears to be in good hands and hardly worth leaving over, or worth feeling persecuted over... I think everyone just needs to take a deep breath and relax

--Jeff
 
Karel Jansens's Avatar
Posts: 3,220 | Thanked: 326 times | Joined on Oct 2005 @ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)
#27
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
I find the opposition to Reggie's proposal interesting. He didn't say he's going to clamp down with a totalitarian fist. He said personal attacks won't be tolerated.

I'm fine with that. There's no need for that sort of engagement. And I have to wonder how those complaining would feel if THEY were the target of some angry, obsessive poster. If Ignore alone sufficed, that would be great. But again: as long as the target is the only one using it, and the troublemaker is hyperactive, then Ignore doesn't work. And as another poster wisely pointed out, newcomers (and we're having a steady stream) don't have the troublemakers on ignore, and can be put off by the sort of crap the Skype thread endured.

And along those lines, I also find it interesting that I'm catching some crap for that debacle. Anyone who objectively examines that mess can easily see I was exercising restraint (confirmed to me by some PMs). Despite what's been said, I never started off by attacking the person responsible for this nonsense-- I simply expressed doubt over a date. And for that a flamewar ensues, one in which you'll kindly note was engaged in by numerous people responding to the troublemaker. If I'm going to be blamed for doubting a date, well, then we've got more to worry about than a few rules.

Some of you say you'll quit if Reggie enacts a little overdue decorum. How do you think *I* feel being the target of unwarranted hostility? Should I stick around for that???

Let's all be adults here. I'll definitely behave myself as long as I don't have to put up with any ridiculous bs that I don't think the complainers would like.

/rant
On another forum I've received actual PM-ed death threats (not very effective ones, obviously, unless you happen to believe in typing from the grave). Granted, it's a political forum, but still... And even then I voted against moderation.

Mind you, I'm against murder (especially my own ), but I also believe death threats can only be effective if the threatener has a voice capability of over 1,000 decibels.

And any newbee who can't distinguish a flamewar in progress has no business on the intarrwebs to begin with. Let it go forth and educate itself...

To reiterate: This is Reggie's forum, we're only guests here and he can do as he pleases. If I don't like it, I'll leave.
 
Karel Jansens's Avatar
Posts: 3,220 | Thanked: 326 times | Joined on Oct 2005 @ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)
#28
Originally Posted by docnesh View Post
Hello,

I am new here, and as such have refrained from saying anything... but this is getting a bit ridiculous. convoluted hit the nail on the head with his comment about new users and google searches pointing people to these forums...

2 weeks ago I started looking here because I was thinking about investing in an n800. It was this site and maemo.org that put me over the edge to buy one. Mainly because I said to myself, hey this is reminiscent of the early days of palm os, they have an intelligent community of users and developers who like this device and what nokia is trying to do in the market and who understand the benefits of open.... everyone seemed helpful and knowledgable...

Shortly after the flamewar started I will confess I found it very entertaining, but honestly this forum should be informative more than it is entertaining.

As for nanny rules and powers governing your free speech, we have this in society already, and frankly we need it here... just like there are laws against slander and libel and yelling "fire!" falsely in a crowded place, so must there be some degree of enforcement here in the forums or it ceases to function as it should.

The truely funny thing is these "rules" don't prevent flamewars, they just prevent "personal attacks" (as the title of this thread/announcement indicates.... this requires some degree of creativity and thoughtfulness to go into your replies, instead of attacking some one directly... attack what they are saying....

Anyway that was my 2 cents... I find this forum to be a valued resource and one I check on a daily basis.... I am not fearful of any new rules that go into effect because honestly the moderator/founder's postings on this subject seem very tempered and controled... this forum appears to be in good hands and hardly worth leaving over, or worth feeling persecuted over... I think everyone just needs to take a deep breath and relax

--Jeff
It's just one freakin' thread in -- how many active discussions?

If the population of the forum insists on having nanny rules, it'll have nanny rules. But I will most likely no longer be here...
 
YoDude's Avatar
Posts: 2,869 | Thanked: 1,781 times | Joined on Feb 2007 @ Po' Bo'. PA
#29
Originally Posted by frethop View Post
As a full-time reader, part-time contributor, in this forum, I have learned to respect many of you who have posted their thoughts and knowledge and opinions here....

...If we all truly ignore those who personally attack -- simply don't take the bait, swallow the urge to lecture, or realize you don't have to defend yourself -- they will go away. Or at least we can raise the signal-to-noise ratio...


-F
Wiser words could not have been said...

All we really need to know about behaving in a forum we should have learned in the first week of grade school.

IMO the problems with the thread in question would have been avoided had one or both parties chosen not to respond to the other. Membership would have had a chance to respond to the topic at hand and consensus could have been formed by the forum on the validity of the statement.

Because of the back and forth between the two, valid opinions from others were either ignored or categorized by one or the other of the two as either for or against them personally.

It ain't personal... it's the freakin' internet! Most use a screen name, so justifying a response as defending ones honor is kind of ridiculous.

This thinking may have bled into other threads and the typical response by most members is to not post in order to not get involved in the childishness...


I know I posted in that thread to "feed the fire and it will burn out" but that was only after an off topic post war had erupted. By then it was just too dang entertaining.

It is also MHO that both of the parties in question should refrain from responding in this thread so that once again, the forum membership is free to form a consensus with out the implication of a personal, ulterior motive.
 
Texrat's Avatar
Posts: 11,700 | Thanked: 10,015 times | Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA
#30
Okay, I was going to drop it but apparently something else needs to be said after YoDude's post (with which I mostly agree):

1) we shouldn't have to walk on eggshells because one poster has a personal problem with another's input. By that I mean none of us should have to refrain from offering our reasoned opinions anywhere in the forum IMO. That entitles troublemakers to de facto control.

2) somehow a few have come to the absurd notion that there were 2 combatants in that thread. Check again. There was a thread-starter making an announcement, followed by a few expressing doubt-- then a hyperbolic reaction by the thread-starter to that doubt. After that, numerous members of the community universally took the thread-starter to task for his nonsense, which regardless of who posted was unreasonably directed at ONE person.

I'm sorry, but if we're going to belabor this at least get the facts straight.

Specifically:

Originally Posted by YoDude View Post
It is also MHO that both of the parties in question should refrain from responding in this thread so that once again, the forum membership is free to form a consensus with out the implication of a personal, ulterior motive.
Censorship? and.. BOTH parties? Looks like a math error there. Count participants again, and re-evaluate one particpant's involvement, please. Thanks.

Second EDIT: seriously YoDude: there was no back and forth between 2 posters. There was back and forth between one poster (about the other) and several other posters. The other poster (me) mostly made some silly asides and refrained for the most part from engaging the one. Hell, I had him on Ignore!

Last edited by Texrat; 2007-06-06 at 14:32.
 
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