Notices


Poll: How much would you be willing to pay for a Neo900 (complete device) with TI DM3730 1GHz/512M-RAM/1GB
Poll Options
How much would you be willing to pay for a Neo900 (complete device) with TI DM3730 1GHz/512M-RAM/1GB

Reply
Thread Tools
joerg_rw's Avatar
Posts: 2,178 | Thanked: 12,215 times | Joined on Mar 2010 @ SOL 3
#2821
An excerpt from freenode IRC channel #devuan (Jaromil being the founder of https://www.devuan.org basically)

[2016-05-31 Tue 20:37:51] <jaromil> DocScrutinizer05: we were talking about you just now me and hellekin
[2016-05-31 Tue 20:38:25] <jaromil> and we think we have great potential and should put some things straight with the neo900 community
[2016-05-31 Tue 20:38:28] <jaromil> so we can help each other
[2016-05-31 Tue 20:38:39] <jaromil> lets say you can count on all the CI infrastructure
[2016-05-31 Tue 20:38:44] <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
[2016-05-31 Tue 20:38:48] <jaromil> and we spin the images on it
[2016-05-31 Tue 20:39:02] <DocScrutinizer05> that sounds AWESOME
[2016-05-31 Tue 20:39:10] <jaromil> so you can concentrate on the coding
[2016-05-31 Tue 20:39:37] <DocScrutinizer05> well, coding is ... Pali and freemangordon ;-)
[2016-05-31 Tue 20:39:40] <jaromil> this would be a good goal and win win, doesn't costs much right now
[2016-05-31 Tue 20:39:48] <DocScrutinizer05> indeed


This means that Maemo and particularly the FPTF "fork" have a cooperative and helpful compatible upstream again. Plus a Devuan that works OOTB (though without several of the maemo-specific apps, of course), for all the Debian fans.

(on an irrelevant sidenote: Hellekin already created a new git with bugtracker and all for internal Neo900 maintenance et al there, and I hope we'll see a [public] FPTF branch shortly too)

cheers
jOERG

Last edited by joerg_rw; 2016-06-06 at 15:14.
 

The Following 16 Users Say Thank You to joerg_rw For This Useful Post:
Posts: 3,187 | Thanked: 3,927 times | Joined on May 2011 @ Poland
#2822
Why Devuan and not simply Debian? Anything besides "we don't like systemd"?

One idea that comes to me mind: using systemd would break the compatibility with the existing apps, which target upstart.

One more thought. I'm wondering: what is the current ETA for it? Sidenote: I'm not buying a Neo (can't afford). Just curious.
__________________
If you want to support my work, you can donate by PayPal or Flattr

Current projects:
N950: rewrite driver for BH1770 for the upstream kernel

Projects no longer actively developed: here
 

The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to marmistrz For This Useful Post:
Posts: 3 | Thanked: 30 times | Joined on Oct 2013
#2823
This is just my personal opinion and this is not a place for yet another Systemd-war... but...

Systemd could work just fine in the future but it could be also a huge risk in a somewhat exotic software/hardware project as it seems to be hogging everything into one huge monolith ball of everything-that-is-not-unix one dependency at a time. To me, that is not a matter of preference but practicality.

On the other hand, Devuan seems to be maturing into a self sustaining fork quite slowly.

If a piece of hardware handles Devuan without a hiccup, it should be somewhat straightforward to customize and install Debian on it pretty painlessly as well (?). I suppose it might be a more difficult process the other way around as Devuan is (at least philosophically) closer to what Maemo was originally built on.

I am happy for the options existing either way.
 

The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to YuppieNalle For This Useful Post:
Posts: 9 | Thanked: 8 times | Joined on Mar 2010 @ England
#2824
Joerg,

It's been a while since your update on the delivery of the Neo900 project so my recurring question is: when are we going to get our hands on the device? Otherwise, please forgive me for being blunt, I would like to get full refund of my contribution!

I would appreciate your prompt reply as I have been in the waiting for long enough--sorry!

Peter
 

The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to pbox For This Useful Post:
Posts: 84 | Thanked: 176 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#2825
Originally Posted by YuppieNalle View Post
Systemd could work just fine in the future
Seems to work ok on sailfish.
 

The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to JohnHughes For This Useful Post:
joerg_rw's Avatar
Posts: 2,178 | Thanked: 12,215 times | Joined on Mar 2010 @ SOL 3
#2826
Hi Pbox,
yes, I've been quite silent lately, sorry for that. We moved to a new infra (tools, procedures, even HR) which was quite a bit of work but seems to be almost reaching a first goal now. Hellekin today picked up on the task to write a comprehensive newsletter summing up on all that happened since we lost Nikolaus for layout. Should appear RSN. Again sorry for the silence, please bear with us and stay tuned.
[edit] meanwhile prease refer to http://irclog.whitequark.org/neo900 and to our new EE repo at https://neo900.org/git/?p=ee;a=summary
/j

Last edited by joerg_rw; 2016-07-27 at 19:49.
 

The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to joerg_rw For This Useful Post:
Posts: 13 | Thanked: 38 times | Joined on Feb 2015
#2827
Today I have read about the Drammer attack.

For details see:
https://www.vusec.net/projects/drammer/
and:
https://github.com/vusec/drammer

There seems to be no 100% reliable way to secure a device in software against such an attack.
Ok, the described attack runs on Android, but imho it should be portable to any platform. Might it be possible to secure the Neo900 by design?

Regards
mith
__________________
www.mygnu.de
 

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to mithrandir For This Useful Post:
joerg_rw's Avatar
Posts: 2,178 | Thanked: 12,215 times | Joined on Mar 2010 @ SOL 3
#2828
Originally Posted by mithrandir View Post
There seems to be no 100% reliable way to secure a device in software against such an attack.
Well, the app with embedded hidden Drammer code needs to get installed in the usual (or not so usual) ways to the target system. So to protect your system against Drammer, do not install apps that contain Drammer exploit code

There's nothing we could do on a hw design level to mitigate that. It's about the way RAM and the memory controller work


cheers
jOERG
 

The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to joerg_rw For This Useful Post:
Posts: 13 | Thanked: 38 times | Joined on Feb 2015
#2829
According to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Row_hammer there have been Javascript implementations of Rowhammer. Thus the Drammer attack could also be possible in Javascript and not only by installing an application.

If we could ensure (somehow) that the neo900 is invulnerable to this kind of attack this could be a strong argument for potential buyers. Maybe we could take this advantage by chance. It could be sufficient to test the device for the vulnerability.

Regards
mith
__________________
www.mygnu.de
 

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to mithrandir For This Useful Post:
Posts: 686 | Thanked: 1,933 times | Joined on Jan 2011 @ Germany
#2830
Would something like emulating ECC in software be feasible? I'm thinking about using some of the RAM as checksum space for the rest - sort of like RAID parity bits in RAM.
It wouldn't prevent rowhammer-based attacks, but if it works, it would make detecting them more likely.

It's purely theroretical speculation on my side though. I don't have the slightest clue how to implement such a feature.


Edit:
There's a thread about rowhammer in the Pyra forums too [1], and I guess what Nikolaus said there would also apply to the Neo900.

[1] https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/thr...whammer.78436/

Last edited by sulu; 2016-10-24 at 20:53.
 

The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to sulu For This Useful Post:
Reply

Tags
neo900, thank you!

Thread Tools

 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 21:37.