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nthn's Avatar
Posts: 543 | Thanked: 1,886 times | Joined on Jun 2014
#81
Originally Posted by fw190 View Post
Guns don't kill people. It's just a piece of metal or composite with moving parts. Period.

Someone has to put a bullet inside and pull the trigger.

Guns allow people to do he things they can do with hands, sticks, knifes on a longer distance and a bigger scale. That is the difference. But as with sticks, stones and knifes they are just objects lying here or there. Without the interaction of a human they are harmless.

Object aren't problems. The operator CAN be a problem.

Banning legal guns doesn't solve killing as the bad guys in general don't use legal guns. The good guys will be left with sticks and stones whereas the bad guys will still import their "thunder sticks".
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ICG0MuzEYzw
 

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#82
I do not want to go down the slippery slope of discussing guns. This is not the forum for that. The only reason I mentioned that was the striking similarity of the arguments. It could have been any number of other controversial topics, it just happened to be guns because it was so recent.

There is a great parallel between the two cases. With great freedom comes great responsibility. And in both cases it is the second part that is in short supply.
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#83
Originally Posted by kinggo View Post
Originally Posted by juiceme View Post
No, fragmentation is an imaginary problem. It is called choice and it is not a problem, it is a solution.
only if you have infinite amount of people who work on that so that you can replace those who split with new ones that will continue with the pace of development on original...something. And since this is never the case, endless forking is wasted effort. For having, usually, just some minor difference which is often irrelevant to the end user.
And endless choice of more or less the same app/OS/TV/phone/whatever is not a choice at all, it is confusion with product compromised one way or the other at the end.
Whic someone will fork just because one thinks that he knows better.
What you have hers is the mistaken belief that if people working on open source development just put their effort in the same basket, did not try to have their own way and acted on common good everything would be sunshine and honey would flow all over the place.

Who defines the "Common Good", is it you or me? Whose vision is the one that gets the love of all, yours or mine?

The world does not work that way! We're in this each for our own reasons and not to be ordered around by bozos.
Any one is free to do what she feels she loves best; hence there usually is a lot of buzz around projects that have the "something" which pulls people into participating. If there are separate projets aiming for same-ish goals but competing for attention and resources, well’ that's the world for you, dude. Just learn to live with it as there is bloody absolutely nuthin' you can do about it.
Bitching about fragmentation is not a creative answer for anything.
 

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#84
Originally Posted by juiceme View Post
Bitching about fragmentation is not a creative answer for anything.
No, it isn't. Neither is bitching about the lack of Linux-compatible hardware, to get back to this thread's topic. But maybe identifying the major cause for such a lack is the first step to doing something about it.

I maintain that that cause is the small user base. With not enough potential users, no sane manufacturer will consider making it. By 'it' I mean not only the final product but also the components, down to the chips. It is tempting to come up with conspiacy theories to explain the lack of Linux drivers for modems, video cards etc, but the simple truth is that it is all down to nothing more than economy. Why should e.g. Qualcom bother with Linux drivers for maybe as many as 10k users, instead of focusing on the 500M using Windows?

The only way to make the Qualcoms of this world produce Linux-compatible hardware is by turning Linux into a major buying force. Which means making Linux attractive to the likes of my sister. Forcing her to type pkcon and check the systemd logs three times a day is not the way to make that happen. Neither is confusing her with the multitude of forks of forks.
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Last edited by pichlo; 2017-02-04 at 15:36. Reason: undo auto-correct
 

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#85
Originally Posted by nthn View Post
In 99% of cases, it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Solutionism at its finest!
In those cases where forking has been a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, those forks normally fail to gain any traction. Nothing is lost except for a developer or two from the original project. If those developers have made an unsuccessful fork, it probably means they disrupting the original project anyway.

There are many reasons why someone may fork a project. Sometimes it's absolutely necessary. It's part and parcel of open source software development. There are countless cases where forks have superseded their original project and other cases where they have provided a credible alternative: LibreOffice, OpenBSD, LibreELEC, MariaDB, CyanogenMod, Replicant, WebKit, Jenkins, Devuan, LibreSSL...

Some call it fragmentation, others call it progress. I hope you're not still using OpenOffice, MySQL, XFree86, etc.

We're all here on this forum because we're interested in an alternative to the world of iOS and Android. That in itself is fragmentation. Those who don't don't like fragmentation tend to stick with iOS or Android.

EDIT: Just to be clear, my above rant relates to nthn's comment, in particular, the 99% part. I don't agree with Jolla's decision to create a new app ecosystem by introducing the proprietary Silica Components meaning apps for Sailfish will not run anywhere else. That is a great example of bad fragmentation and is definitely not progress.
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Last edited by wicket; 2017-02-04 at 16:15.
 

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#86
Originally Posted by juiceme View Post
Who defines the "Common Good", is it you or me? Whose vision is the one that gets the love of all, yours or mine?
According to what constitutes a true meritocracy, we all do. Sadly, when folks start to make decisions for others based solely on their own wants/needs, then it's no longer community or a meritocracy.

Fragmentation is a problem when it turns into noise. And that's what is exactly going on in the hardware portion of our wants/needs now. To support these fragmented wants/needs, the hardware has become fragmented as well, which dilutes the support.

Being on the same page for a common something isn't all bad. Choices aren't all bad either. But lack of support and yet a device that delivers even 1/2 of what this thread proposes are needs has yet to happen anytime in 2016 or yet in 2017.

In fact, the majority of the needs in this thread are satisfied in anachronistic hardware from 2008 or such. But good luck on finding any of that in pristine shape or affordable enough this year... or worse, with drivers that support our wants/needs.

tl;dr No device released yet is ideal for more than a very small amount of people that want GNU/Linux handhelds and it is not going to change very soon unless a major manufacturer releases a platform with capable drivers and we show up in record numbers and buy the damn thing.
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#87
To bring some structural unity to this thread and since this is a thread about hand held linux machines, are there any hand held smart guns that use a linux operating system? Which OS might be best for such purposes? Tizen?
 

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#88
Originally Posted by mscion View Post
To bring some structural unity to this thread and since this is a thread about hand held linux machines, are there any hand held smart guns that use a linux operating system? Which OS might be best for such purposes? Tizen?
Ok, this is going a bit more on-topic.
Good enough, anyway, for me to chime in with stuff I don't know anything about, since the original purpose of this thread seems to be gone for good.

While Samsung does have some experience with stuff like that, from what I've gathered, it's mostly things I would not consider hand held: Tanks, ships and stationary killing machines. Didn't find any info on those using Tizen, though. But why wouldn't they, really?
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#89
Originally Posted by mscion View Post
To bring some structural unity to this thread and since this is a thread about hand held linux machines, are there any hand held smart guns that use a linux operating system? Which OS might be best for such purposes? Tizen?
There is TrackingPoint's PGF that uses Linux, but I don't know what distro it's based on
 

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#90
GPD announced new device - GPD Pocket, 7" UMPC with Ubuntu preinstalled https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=98091&page=4#32
 

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