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2007-08-16
, 14:48
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#62
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Arnim, it is your tireless efforts, regardless of scope, along with perpetual cheer that earn you an easy spot in the Tablet Coder's Hall of Fame. 
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2007-08-16
, 17:42
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Posts: 481 |
Thanked: 65 times |
Joined on Aug 2007
@ Westcountry, UK
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#63
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Originally Posted by zerojay
I don't think you can really generalise that way. Someone who writes good code will write good code, and someone that does badly will write badly regardless of passion. Someone who is not paid is going to be more likely to complete something they want to make than something they don't, but if they are paid they don't have that problem.
Someone that's motivated and passionate about something they are programming and working on are *always* going to put out something that's higher quality than someone that's just a paid code monkey and doesn't really care.
People writing banking software, or satelite control code are very rarely passionate about it, but they have very strong methodologies and testing strategies that ensure that their code will be of a very high quality.
It won't generally be the best application, but it will fulfil the specs and be reliable.
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2007-08-16
, 20:56
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Posts: 883 |
Thanked: 980 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Bern, Switzerland
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#64
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Originally Posted by ArnimS
Your work is much appreciated - and envied
I really just want to show tablet users who don't consider themselves "real programmers" how easy and fun it is to find a linux app they want / like, do a little research, build dependencies, tweak a couple things, and host a .deb of it.
In fact, for me, the HUGE effort to get up and running with development on the N800 is an absolute showstopper for me - and probably a big hindrance for many other devs, too.
Compare the current OS2007 development environments to the stuff available for Palm or Windows Mobile. It takes literally minutes to build a small GUI app using HB++ (Palm example) or the Compact Framework 2.0 with Visual Studio 2005 (Windows Mobile). Anybody can get up and running with a simple application in a matter of moments, and the IDE helps to concentrate on the specific functional content of the app, without much thought about the environment.
I admit that I don't have the smallest clue about Linux development, but still - the first steps were extremely painful: My experience is limited to download the Xubuntu VMware with the installed scratchbox and firing up the emulator. But what now? What language to develop in? What IDE to use? (and yes, I read the tutorials on maemo.org)
I suppose the easiest thing for me would be to start in Python - I will try to install/update the VMware machine with Python 2.5.
OTOH, I don't want "choice" right now - I simply need an easy way to start developping small to medium apps for the N800, to further my enthusiasm for the machine :-)
(don't want to sound harsh, just a bit frustrated about that (too) steep learning curve
There are family fathers with young kids and few sparetime that would like to develop for the N800, without first investing weeks in getting up and running ...hehe)
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2007-08-16
, 21:13
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Posts: 481 |
Thanked: 65 times |
Joined on Aug 2007
@ Westcountry, UK
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#65
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Originally Posted by trevarthan
Maybe they are planning on selling it on another platform. Although I can't imagine what platform they could sell it on. I have tried it and it doesn't really seem to work for me (it doesn't play my songs, but doesn't say why, doesn't find my iPhoto or iTunes libraries either)
I don't think anyone but Canola's management knows what they hope to gain by making it closed source. While it's a nice app, it doesn't really innovate (so I doubt there is anything patentable).
And I doubt it has much value as a paid app considering that it's being given away for free. And it doesn't provide any functionality that you can't get elsewhere.
Originally Posted by trevarthan
So did you start Kagu before or after Canola?
So if they're giving it away, why not make it free so that I wouldn't have had to write Kagu in the first place? eh?
I guess I am coming from a different place though, in that I don't see why something has to necessarily be open source. Sure it is one way of doing something but by keeping it closed gives them control over its development. Either way it is their thing.
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2007-08-16
, 21:37
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Posts: 481 |
Thanked: 65 times |
Joined on Aug 2007
@ Westcountry, UK
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#66
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Originally Posted by twaelti
I had the same problem. It is a bit of an uphill struggle (although setting up for 2007 is easier than setting up for 2006). However, it is doable.
Compare the current OS2007 development environments to the stuff available for Palm or Windows Mobile. It takes literally minutes to build a small GUI app using HB++ (Palm example) or the Compact Framework 2.0 with Visual Studio 2005 (Windows Mobile). Anybody can get up and running with a simple application in a matter of moments, and the IDE helps to concentrate on the specific functional content of the app, without much thought about the environment.
Originally Posted by trevarthan
One of the things microsoft gets right (and I don't think there is that much!), is making the setup for writing software on their machines trivially easy. Ok you still need to be able to write stuff, but it means there is more software made, and thus more good software. Also has the secondary effect of making less technical software that doesn't require you to have knowledge of linux to use - one of the most obvious things I have noticed since using the n770 is a lot of software expects you to understand linux, or have technical knowledge in the subject.
I suppose the easiest thing for me would be to start in Python - I will try to install/update the VMware machine with Python 2.5.
(don't want to sound harsh, just a bit frustrated about that (too) steep learning curve
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2007-08-16
, 22:02
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Posts: 2,853 |
Thanked: 968 times |
Joined on Nov 2005
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#67
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Originally Posted by twaelti
A true Python advocate would (probably convincingly) argue that the above is true no matter the person and no matter the platform involved. Considering your situation (similar to mine in some ways, except that I already had a background in the language) and the Maemo platform, it's a no-brainer that takes little arguing, because :
Your work is much appreciated - and envied
In fact, for me, the HUGE effort to get up and running with development on the N800 is an absolute showstopper for me - and probably a big hindrance for many other devs, too.
(...)
I admit that I don't have the smallest clue about Linux development, but still - the first steps were extremely painful: My experience is limited to download the Xubuntu VMware with the installed scratchbox and firing up the emulator. But what now? What language to develop in? What IDE to use? (and yes, I read the tutorials on maemo.org)
I suppose the easiest thing for me would be to start in Python - I will try to install/update the VMware machine with Python 2.5.
- there has been an almost-official (via INdT) Python package for the tablets since the days of ITOS2005 on the 770, and it has been maintained through all versions of OS and hardware (which, as some have noted, is quite an exception :-),
- contrary to many embedded python distributions it is not crippled but quite comprehensive, with several useful add-ons and "bindings" to the Hildon GUI API,
- it even gives you the choice between TWO GUI frameworks to build you apps with : pyGTK for classic, widget-based stuff, or PyGame for freestyle, console-like interfaces. You could even say there are three, because for simple apps with an even shorter learning curve there is also Gustavo Barbieri's Eagle, an abstraction layer over pyGTK that offers a simple and concise API.
- you don't even have to install a specific development environment (VMWare or other) to get started : you can just use your existing setup (like Win XP) with the corresponding Python/pyGTK/pyGame packages and code away. When you transfer your files over to the tablet they should run right away, with the GTK widgets automatically "Hildonized". Specific adjustments will mostly be related to the screen size.
The main drawback is the startup time of the python+pyGTK (or python+pygame) combo on small machines like the tablets. But of it's (just about) bearable on the 770, it should be OK on the N800...
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2007-08-16
, 22:16
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Posts: 729 |
Thanked: 19 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
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#68
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Originally Posted by ArnimS
I know this, and I would do the same thing but for some odd reason my Scratchbox VMware image won't update/run right.
Sorry for the silly thread title.
The truth of the matter is most of the stuff i've 'ported' is more-or-less a straight compile, I'm going to say something that the devs here already now.
Now, shut yer pie hole and get to recompiling Mana World!
The truth of the matter is most of the stuff i've 'ported' is more-or-less a straight compile, I'm going to say something that the devs here already now.
I really just want to show tablet users who don't consider themselves "real programmers" how easy and fun it is to find a linux app they want / like, do a little research, build dependencies, tweak a couple things, and host a .deb of it.
This sort of activity should not be confused with the effort, dedication and talent it takes to write a real app (kagu/trevarthan) or do a real hildon port (Nethack, AD-770) or a real optimization (ssvb/mplayer).
Cheers!