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Is there a section to talk about Java ME? Apps, etc. (6)
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Full linux distros on Sailfish OS (253)
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2010-03-03
, 14:11
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Joined on Jul 2007
@ Mountain View (CA, USA)
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#12
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Originally Posted by johnel
MeeGo is a project of the Linux Foundation so please explain further your argument.
Linux is doing ok!
When MeeGo is ready Linux will be doing just fine on mobiles too.
I think your argument is weak.
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2010-03-03
, 15:04
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Posts: 3,105 |
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Joined on Jul 2007
@ Mountain View (CA, USA)
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#13
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Originally Posted by livefreeordie
Nokia tries *a lot*. Ask hardware vendors.
That's nice and I (we?) appreciate your efforts, but please also try to get them to actually open source their drivers. That's the ultimate solution I'm sure most of us are hoping for.
There is a good discussion about this somewhere in this thread...
Basically, Nokia puts considerable effort pushing hardware vendors in that direction. Open source drivers play well with the Nokia chipset strategy and with Linux development. But of course these companies need to make business, so asking them to open their IPR without suggesting any alternative is not the best approach.
MeeGo, with Intel as initial founder (a company with good track offering open drivers), is one of the biggest and most concrete public actions Nokia could push in that direction.
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2010-03-03
, 15:26
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Posts: 999 |
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Joined on Dec 2009
@ earth?
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#14
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Originally Posted by qgil
I'll explain this further:
MeeGo is a project of the Linux Foundation so please explain further your argument.
The reason that Nokia have to keep moving through OSes is that the hardware for these devices is moving forwards at such a rate. It is not like the desktop market where a 3 year old machine is still pretty capable. A three year old smart phone is like a chocolate teapot (cue barrage of abuse from N770 owners).
You can't keep the OS fresh and taking advantage of new hardware while keeping backwards compatibility. And if you did you'd only end up in a mess as apps would have to be compiled for different architectures and specifications.
For example I used to have a custom install of Slackware(current) on my laptop. It includes kernel version 2.6.33. Great kernel but the wireless driver breaks on my hardware. I replaced the kernel with an older version - 2.29.6 worked perfectly. The rest of the software still runs fine with the older kernel. I did not need to re-compile anything. E.g. Firefox, Openoffice and cd/dvd burning was fine.
I also installed all this on another laptop (much older)- but could use the latest kernel (2.6.33) and everything was still ok (the older kernel worked too). Both laptops were x86-based but were completely different specifications.
This older laptop could not use compiz special effects so I had to switch them off but the installed applications still ran fine.
I see no reason why MeeGo can do the same thing with older Nokia devices. If we talk about hardware abstraction then different kernel configurations would be needed but the higher-level stuff like user applications should stay the same.
Imagine if MeeGo was available for the n900 and n800.
The n900 is capable of making phone calls the n800 cannot do that. The only difference should be the driver. The rest of the software should still be the same.
However if we consider the n770, n8x00 & n900 in the same "family" then MeeGo can unify these devices together. Just because a device is older does not always mean "less-capable". Pre-n900 devices support OTG usb and use larger screens.
I know that mobile devices vary wildly compared to PC-type systems but I think many of the principles are the same.
As long as Nokia, Intel and other companies adhere to the MeeGo "standards" then cross-platform and older devices can benefit from this.
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2010-03-03
, 16:27
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Posts: 262 |
Thanked: 232 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
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#15
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Originally Posted by qgil
I wasn't trying to imply you don't. I really do appreciate your (previous) efforts, like I said. You just sounded like you'd given up on certain vendors. Maybe Intel could threaten to make an SoC that obsoletes their solution
Nokia tries *a lot*. Ask hardware vendors.
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2010-03-03
, 16:36
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Posts: 1,224 |
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Joined on Jul 2007
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#16
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Originally Posted by qgil
Which hardware vendor prevents you from telling us to what the retu/tahvo ADCs and GPIOs connect on the 770/N800/N810?
Nokia tries *a lot*. Ask hardware vendors.
Who makes the phone and the GPS chips in the N900? Maybe we can go and ask them for the specs?
Why not choose a chip with free drivers, when there are so many available, instead of selecting one without free drivers and then trying "a lot" to convince the vendor to open it?
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My repository
"N900 community support for the MeeGo-Harmattan" Is the new "Mer is Fremantle for N810".
No more Nokia devices for me.
My repository
"N900 community support for the MeeGo-Harmattan" Is the new "Mer is Fremantle for N810".
No more Nokia devices for me.
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2010-03-03
, 16:44
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Posts: 2,355 |
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Joined on Jan 2009
@ Barcelona
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#17
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Originally Posted by johnel
See any Java midlet and you'll see what this is not as easy as you make it sound.
I see no reason why MeeGo can do the same thing with older Nokia devices. If we talk about hardware abstraction then different kernel configurations would be needed but the higher-level stuff like user applications should stay the same..
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2010-03-03
, 16:51
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Posts: 262 |
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Joined on Aug 2009
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#18
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Originally Posted by Matan
Maybe the closed vendor is just so much cheaper that Nokia can't afford to look elsewhere? On the other hand, their scale gives them significant leverage.
Why not choose a chip with free drivers, when there are so many available, instead of selecting one without free drivers and then trying "a lot" to convince the vendor to open it?
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2010-03-03
, 18:47
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Posts: 5,478 |
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Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#19
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Originally Posted by cashclientel
An argument that's certainly valid for big generational transitions like from 770 to N800 or N810 to N900. It's not, unfortunately, valid for the marketing and business-based reasoning that seems to be behind Harmattan support on the N900. There have been no valid technical arguments presented, and at least one invalid one that I've heard directly from the mouth of a top Nokia executive (capacitive).
The reason that Nokia have to keep moving through OSes is that the hardware for these devices is moving forwards at such a rate. It is not like the desktop market where a 3 year old machine is still pretty capable. A three year old smart phone is like a chocolate teapot (cue barrage of abuse from N770 owners).
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Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
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2010-03-03
, 19:51
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Posts: 670 |
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Joined on Mar 2009
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#20
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Originally Posted by Naranek
Hey, please don't misread my intentions -- I was trying to ask honest questions and start a rational discussion b/c I care about MeeGo. But I understand many of us on this forum have rant fatigue these days.
The whining is really getting old guys.
Originally Posted by johnel
Of course, but sometimes the devil is in the details... I've watched the Diablo community SSU discussions and the Mer discussions pretty closely. Nokia does cooperate substantially with the community (which is great!), but not always as much as we would like. There are sometimes roadblocks. The good news is that I think that Nokia is really learning how to work with the community and give them the tools they need to extend the lifetimes of their devices and I think MeeGo reflects this. And that's really good news!
MeeGo is open-source.
Originally Posted by qgil
So, for example, MeeGo applications developed for Harmattan should be effortlessly available on other MeeGo devices and vice versa -- maybe just a compile away? If so, that really sounds great.
* No matter how many UX changes vendors do, they need to provide the official MeeGo API if they want to call their product a MeeGo device.
* I bet the MeeGo build infrastructure (OBS) will minimize the rpm/deb hassle for developers.
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* n810 since Feb 2009
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* n810 since Feb 2009
* Most-used apps: Opera, gPodder, Panucci, Tomiku, Canola, Quasar, MaemoMapper, ATI85, Maemopad+, AisleRiot Solitaire, Anagramarama, Rapier, Gnumeric, pyRDesktop
* Mobile-friendly URLs of popular sites
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I am fully aware that there are closed-source aspects to this devices. e.g. gps & phone functionality.
However, that does not mean it will never happen. The MeeGo "stack" is open-source and the licensing terms allow the option to include proprietory drivers.
Maybe Nokia might change thier mind - who knows.
Personally I hate proprietory drivers but unfortunately they do exist.
I like cake.