Active Topics
-
Is there a section to talk about Java ME? Apps, etc. (0)
to General by Kalatti - 4 hrs, 36 mins ago -
Extra softwares in Sailfish using CLI, repositories, etc (117)
to SailfishOS by nieldk - 2 days, 1 hr ago -
Firefox with Leste (6)
to Maemo 7 / Leste by teroyk - 2 days, 22 hrs ago - more...
| The Following User Says Thank You to Hogwash For This Useful Post: | ||
 |
|
2009-10-07
, 19:07
|
|
Posts: 600 |
Thanked: 742 times |
Joined on Sep 2008
@ England
|
#42
|
Originally Posted by YoDude
After looking at the prices of other high-end phones, I think Nokia has set the price relatively low.
...I would have much rather the initial cost of the device be reduced to all...
The N900 is packed to the hilt with technology, comes with 32GB included, has a modern processor, and yet is selling for less than older less-capable devices such as the HTC Touch HD, and for almost the same price as the less advanced N97 and N97 mini.
So yes, I think the initial cost of the device really has been reduced to all. Perhaps we are getting that pricing in return for the N900 being step 4 of 5.
From mobilephonesdirect.co.uk:
N900 32GB £450
N97 32GB £430
Nokia N97 mini 8GB £448
HTC Touch Pro 2 0.5GB £490
HTC HD2 0.5GB £495
HTC Touch HD 0.5GB £480
 |
|
2009-10-07
, 20:15
|
|
Posts: 2,173 |
Thanked: 2,678 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Cornwall, UK
|
#43
|
Originally Posted by Flandry
Except as far as I can gather most of those apps for download won't run on the n900. They're apps for the n800, and need adapting to maemo 5.
If anything mission-critical is missing from the currently available software, don't buy the device. Playing the waiting game for linux apps is going to be an exercise in frustration.
What is it you need that's not around, though? I browsed through the entire "Downloads" tab here yesterday and was blown away by the selection. It's thin in certain areas (reflecting the linux and gadget nerd heredity), but not by any means limited.
Case in point is that I really want to run a Bible programme that will be accesible offline. (I live in Cornwall, where signal isn't guaranteed and work in a hospital which is a no-gprs area). Rapier is apparently a tad challenging to get working but does the job... on the n800. The developer isn't planning to adapt it to the n900 - yes, I already asked him and he most politely replied.
If all those apps in the 'downloads' area would run freely on an n900 I'd order tonight.
__________________
Hi! I'm Kathy and I'm a Maemo Greeter! Welcome.
Useful links for newcomers: New members say hello , New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Did you know Meego.com has forums too?
Hi! I'm Kathy and I'm a Maemo Greeter! Welcome.
Useful links for newcomers: New members say hello , New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Did you know Meego.com has forums too?
|
|
2009-10-07
, 20:37
|
|
Posts: 607 |
Thanked: 450 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ Washington, DC
|
#44
|
Originally Posted by Hogwash
I'm willing to be educated so let me ask, why? Why can't I go to Mozilla, download and install Firefox; add Adobe Reader, Flash Player, and Java; and start browsing the web as it's supposed to be browsed?
Right now there is a dearth of apps for the N900, but this is remedied in good time, given a demand. The physical limitations of the N900 (memory, bandwidth, screen size) will present challenges for developers, but this has little to do with linux per se.
It's not bandwidth because that just slows things down, it doesn't prevent things. As far as screen size, my OQO runs Windows in the same 800x480 pixels that are available to Linux on my N810.
Coming from the Windows world, my understanding is that the applications shouldn't care what hardware they are running on. Is that different in Linux?
 |
|
2009-10-07
, 20:56
|
|
Posts: 2,121 |
Thanked: 1,540 times |
Joined on Mar 2008
@ Oxford, UK
|
#45
|
Originally Posted by DaveP1
Are you really an ex-programmer?
I'm willing to be educated so let me ask, why? Why can't I go to Mozilla, download and install Firefox; add Adobe Reader, Flash Player, and Java; and start browsing the web as it's supposed to be browsed?
It's not bandwidth because that just slows things down, it doesn't prevent things. As far as screen size, my OQO runs Windows in the same 800x480 pixels that are available to Linux on my N810.
Coming from the Windows world, my understanding is that the applications shouldn't care what hardware they are running on. Is that different in Linux?
| The Following User Says Thank You to pelago For This Useful Post: | ||
 |
|
2009-10-07
, 21:02
|
|
Posts: 2,869 |
Thanked: 1,784 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Po' Bo'. PA
|
#46
|
Originally Posted by DaveP1
The ARM processor core...
I'm willing to be educated so let me ask, why? Why can't I go to Mozilla, download and install Firefox; add Adobe Reader, Flash Player, and Java; and start browsing the web as it's supposed to be browsed?
Is this a trick question?
| The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to YoDude For This Useful Post: | ||
 |
|
2009-10-07
, 21:04
|
|
Posts: 1,559 |
Thanked: 1,786 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Boston
|
#47
|
Originally Posted by RevdKathy
Sorry if that was misleading. I was using the current downloads as an example of how much will probably be available for N900.
Except as far as I can gather most of those apps for download won't run on the n900. They're apps for the n800, and need adapting to maemo 5.
Case in point is that I really want to run a Bible programme that will be accesible offline. (I live in Cornwall, where signal isn't guaranteed and work in a hospital which is a no-gprs area). Rapier is apparently a tad challenging to get working but does the job... on the n800. The developer isn't planning to adapt it to the n900 - yes, I already asked him and he most politely replied.
If all those apps in the 'downloads' area would run freely on an n900 I'd order tonight.
Not having a bible program is actually a problem for me, too. As things are now i'll still probably get the N900 regardless, and use the ebook reader that will come out (sufficiently large user base that someone will make it happen) or the PDF reader that i believe is included on the stock model until then. That would be the first app i'd work on if it doesn't show up, too. I use Opie Reader on a Zaurus now for on-the-go scripture reference. Nevertheless, if having a dedicated bible reader program is essential for you, you should probably wait.
@DaveP1: You might as well ask why you can't download and run those apps on a linux desktop. It's an issue of OS compatibility, not capability. There are two things standing in the way of doing that. The first is that the processor in the N900 is ARM-based, which is different than Intel's x86 architecture. The second is that those programs, even if they were compiled to run on ARM-based desktops (of which there are none afaik, it's a hypothetical situation :P), would also have to be compiled to use the libraries that Maemo uses, which are slightly different.
Think about program incompatibility between Windows 95 and Windows Vista, or Mac OSX and Windows. All of those are "real computer OSes", yet you can't just go download one copy of Flash from Adobe and run it on any of them.
|
|
2009-10-07
, 22:10
|
|
Posts: 607 |
Thanked: 450 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ Washington, DC
|
#48
|
Yes, Pelago, I really am an ex-programmer but the ex is probably from before you were born. I programmed mainframes. I'm now a project manager who oversees consultants who manage programmers.
No, YoDude, it was not meant to be a trick question. My understanding (from the primitive programming I used to do) was that if I wrote a generic C+ app, the code didn't need to know what the hardware was, it only needed to gracefully handle the lack of a capability (for example, trying to print when no printer is available). The compiler, OTOH, would translate application code into executable code and would intimately depend on the OS and, to a lesser extent, the hardware.
If the ARM processor core lacks the capability to handle certain functions, I can understand that. While a compiler can get around many instruction limitations, even with RISC chips (witness the IBM Power series), on a device with multiple hardware constraints eventually you run out of possibilities. Just looking at the way the N800 and N810 were set up, I would guess there are issues of memory addressability (and possibly graphics).
Flandry, I understand what you're saying to a certain extent but let me ask a non-Linux user's question. Why do you need different libraries? Are the libraries you refer to specific not to Maemo but to the NIT hardware because they function as drivers? Or are they there because they are Maemo's UI layer in place of Gnome or KDE?
P.S. I've taken up enough of this thread. While I would like to understand more, these will be my last comments on Linux. I still think the N900 is interesting as a smartphone but not as a computer.
Last edited by DaveP1; 2009-10-07 at 22:33. Reason: added P.S.
No, YoDude, it was not meant to be a trick question. My understanding (from the primitive programming I used to do) was that if I wrote a generic C+ app, the code didn't need to know what the hardware was, it only needed to gracefully handle the lack of a capability (for example, trying to print when no printer is available). The compiler, OTOH, would translate application code into executable code and would intimately depend on the OS and, to a lesser extent, the hardware.
If the ARM processor core lacks the capability to handle certain functions, I can understand that. While a compiler can get around many instruction limitations, even with RISC chips (witness the IBM Power series), on a device with multiple hardware constraints eventually you run out of possibilities. Just looking at the way the N800 and N810 were set up, I would guess there are issues of memory addressability (and possibly graphics).
Flandry, I understand what you're saying to a certain extent but let me ask a non-Linux user's question. Why do you need different libraries? Are the libraries you refer to specific not to Maemo but to the NIT hardware because they function as drivers? Or are they there because they are Maemo's UI layer in place of Gnome or KDE?
P.S. I've taken up enough of this thread. While I would like to understand more, these will be my last comments on Linux. I still think the N900 is interesting as a smartphone but not as a computer.
Last edited by DaveP1; 2009-10-07 at 22:33. Reason: added P.S.
|
|
2009-10-07
, 22:33
|
|
Posts: 369 |
Thanked: 191 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ Virginia
|
#49
|
No. Even in the dysfunctional 
world of Windows, hardware platform is significant. The only somewhat blurred exception is between x86 & x64 platforms, where the latter OS will commonly run software compiled for the former (provided all dependent libs are present, of course).
You are partly correct in that the sourcecode is largely agnostic. Simply retarget your new hardware platform and hit compile....and monkeys might fly out of my butt
I'll offer you one concession - due to some of the limitations already mentioned, a full installation of, say, Gnome is out of the question. Therefore you cannot simply recompile Firefox as it won't have the application framework it depends on. That's why the Maemo5 browser is based on the core mozilla technology - the part that counts (I believe)...therefore pages should render identically to Firefox.
So, one real limitation on apps retargeted at the Maemo5 platform is the outer 'presentation layer' code. However, this in no way means that Maemo5 is a 'lesser' linux than Fedora etc - it simply has a different application framework better suited to the limitations of the device. QT and GTK and Tcl/Tk are all different frameworks, but we don't start criticizing the underlying OS for their incompatibilities, do we?
world of Windows, hardware platform is significant. The only somewhat blurred exception is between x86 & x64 platforms, where the latter OS will commonly run software compiled for the former (provided all dependent libs are present, of course).You are partly correct in that the sourcecode is largely agnostic. Simply retarget your new hardware platform and hit compile....and monkeys might fly out of my butt
I'll offer you one concession - due to some of the limitations already mentioned, a full installation of, say, Gnome is out of the question. Therefore you cannot simply recompile Firefox as it won't have the application framework it depends on. That's why the Maemo5 browser is based on the core mozilla technology - the part that counts (I believe)...therefore pages should render identically to Firefox.
So, one real limitation on apps retargeted at the Maemo5 platform is the outer 'presentation layer' code. However, this in no way means that Maemo5 is a 'lesser' linux than Fedora etc - it simply has a different application framework better suited to the limitations of the device. QT and GTK and Tcl/Tk are all different frameworks, but we don't start criticizing the underlying OS for their incompatibilities, do we?
 |
|
2009-10-07
, 22:53
|
|
Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
|
#50
|
Originally Posted by DaveP1
If the code isn't available, you can't compile it.
If the ARM processor core lacks the capability to handle certain functions, I can understand that. While a compiler can get around many instruction limitations, even with RISC chips (witness the IBM Power series), on a device with multiple hardware constraints eventually you run out of possibilities. Just looking at the way the N800 and N810 were set up, I would guess there are issues of memory addressability (and possibly graphics).
__________________
Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
Wait until the price drops, by which time you will see whether such promises materialize
Early adoption has its risks, but without it, entrepreneurial game-changers would be suffocated.