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rgbyhkr is offline rgbyhkr
2005-11-26 , 18:55
Posts: 92 | Thanked: 0 times | Joined on Oct 2005
#1
Well, it looks like Nokia finally killed off the N-Gage:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20051125-5627.html

No surprise really. It was a poorly executed concept from the getgo and didn't stand a chance vs Nintendo and now Sony. Hopefully Nokia learned a few lessons that can be implemented to help the 770 succeed (once they get past this supply problem, of course )

Jeff
 
Remote User is offline Remote User
2005-11-26 , 19:58
Posts: 192 | Thanked: 5 times | Joined on Nov 2005 @ Eugene, Oregon
#2
Originally Posted by rgbyhkr
The N-Gage was a poorly executed concept from the getgo and didn't stand a chance vs Nintendo and Sony. Hopefully Nokia learned a few lessons that can be implemented to help the 770 succeed.
With the benefit of hindsight we can all agree that instead of the 6 million they said they wanted to sell they only sold 2 million. In 2000 the 2 million they sold would have been a big success but by the end of 2005 Sony's expects to have sold 14 million PSPs and Nintendo expects to have sold 12 million DSs. That's the current standard for mobile gaming devices. The 770 is much more versatile than the PSP, though, and if the apps are there, and if Nokia can actually make them, then I think they should sell

I'd like to mention that Nokia holds the GPL develpment wild card. It has created an organization that channels the efforts of Linux & BSD developers in support of the 770. It's taken them time and its competitors haven't even yet realised that this is an absolute necessity from this point forward. If the 770 takes off as I think it will, then companies that would like to overtake Nokia, like Siemens, Motorola and SONY will find themselves one card short without this developer community to count on. Nokia is the number 2 player globally in mobile devices and they have a huge strategic advantage because of their acceptance of the inevitability of Free Software. Check this out...
http://opensource.nokia.com/
Nokia is a big friend of GPL software, no question, and 2006 will be the year that Microsoft, and perhaps SONY and Nintendo, realise that they are in deep, deep **** for not having nourished the support of the GPL Free Software community. This is not your father's world any more. Wait till the new Skype Bluetooth earpiece, or something like it, is used in tandem with the 770. Wow. Standing in the middle of a field or driving down the Interstate, talking with VOIP to people all around the world for free, with both hands tied behind your back.

What is it called when you do VOIP on the 770 and you see the person you're talking to?
 
Karel Jansens's Avatar
Karel Jansens is offline Karel Jansens
2005-11-26 , 20:13
Posts: 3,220 | Thanked: 326 times | Joined on Oct 2005 @ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)
#3
Originally Posted by Remote User
What is it called when you do VOIP on the 770 and you see the person you're talking to?
"Standing within 100 m of a WiFi hotspot"?
 
rgbyhkr is offline rgbyhkr
2005-11-26 , 20:41
Posts: 92 | Thanked: 0 times | Joined on Oct 2005
#4
I bought an N-Gage the first week it was out - then returned it a week later. The design was seriously flawed and it went beyong the swapping card hassle. Nokia had the benefit of a provider infrastructure to subsidize purchases like they do with more traditional cell phones.

Nokia doesn't have that advantage with the 770. Yes, it is far more flexible and is designed better for its purpose than the N-Gage was. However, the launch problems are just the start of what could be a long battle for Nokia. I've said many times before that marketing the 770 properly will be the key to its success. It's going to take more than geekophile (yes, we all are in that category - participation here is proof enough of that) interest to make it a success.

The VOIP angle is interesting but more WiFi hotspot infrastructure is needed. Cell phone tech has advanced to the point where competition is fierce and prices are coming down for voice services while companies try to open new revenue streams in the data department. It would be awesome to one day use a device that can do both for some nominal fee but we're a long way from that. The 770 could very well have been a distant memory by then.

Again, though, I'm still buying one. Even if I give into what will surely be serious OQO lust when I see it next week, I'm still going to get a 770. :-)

Jeff
 
divxz is offline divxz
2005-11-26 , 21:46
Posts: 5 | Thanked: 0 times | Joined on Nov 2005
#5
Originally Posted by rgbyhkr
Well, it looks like Nokia finally killed off the N-Gage:

No surprise really. It was a poorly executed concept from the getgo and didn't stand a chance vs Nintendo and now Sony.
Jeff
The device was marketed incorrectly from launch. It should have never been positioned to compete with a GBA SP or PSP. Its a good Series 60 smart phone with superior gameplay abilities. Superior to other phones, not to portable game systems.

I use a N-GAGE QD as my daily phone and its an excellent device. My positive experience with the N-GAGE made me put in an order for a 770.
 
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Karel Jansens is offline Karel Jansens
2005-11-26 , 22:12
Posts: 3,220 | Thanked: 326 times | Joined on Oct 2005 @ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)
#6
Originally Posted by divxz
I use a N-GAGE QD as my daily phone and its an excellent device. My positive experience with the N-GAGE made me put in an order for a 770.
At least a QD doesn't make you look like a reject Cylon when you use it for calling.

Braver people than you have hung on to their original N-GAGE, boldly risking public ridicule.
 
Remote User is offline Remote User
2005-11-27 , 15:24
Posts: 192 | Thanked: 5 times | Joined on Nov 2005 @ Eugene, Oregon
#7
Originally Posted by Karel Jansens
"Standing within 100 m of a WiFi hotspot"?
True enough, for now. I read a version of Google News that I've customized to look for news with words like WiFi, WiMAX, BlueTooth, Zigbee and MIMO. Bandwidth and range are dramatically increasing, day by day. It's clear from all the news that soon devices like the 770 will be connecting to the net from just about anywhere.

In eastern Oregon, where relatively very few Oregonians live, you can log on, for free, to the net with a wireless device even as you're tooling down I-84 at 70 MPH. 600 Square miles out there are covered by a mesh network that is open to all. The 770 and devices like it will thrive because of projects like this that are springing up everywhere. The 770 is far more valuable as a remote network touchscreen display than it is as a PDA, as we're all finding out. Nokia has specifically mentioned VOIP in a soon-to-arrive firmware upgrade so I'm jazzed about that.

And look at the fast growing intensity of discovery going on here at ITT, even with only a few of us able to get our hands on a 770 so far (I'm not included yet, either). I'm beginning to think that the 770 and Free Software are an explosion that rock the world. For a long, long time tech types have been preoccupied with tech for its own sake. I think now that tech types have an opportunity to change their focus now to the practical side of tech. All the evidence I need to convince me of that is right here at ITT, at the Maemo site, and in my own experiences, which cover several decades.

We had steam engines for almost 300 years before somebody put one on wheels. At that point a few people realized that petroleum-driven engines were the way to go. The result was that we became mobile. It was not even 100 years ago and look at it now. At some point technologies that have been around for a while converge and things that were not even imagined become possible. I think we're at that point now. All I can do personally until the 770 is widely available is to try to help everyone extend their visions of what is newly possible. I'm also learning a lot - especially that there are some very clever and very determined 770 owners in every market where it's available.
 
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Hedgecore is offline Hedgecore
2005-11-27 , 15:34
Posts: 1,361 | Thanked: 115 times | Joined on Oct 2005 @ Toronto, Ontario, Canada
#8
I haven't had the chance to taste WiFi on the road except for a short stint in Rawlins Wyoming at a Flying J rest stop during a road trip to San Francisco in 2004; and that still cost me $5 for an hour's time. The concept blew me away, even though the experience was less than desirable (Pentium 1 120mhz laptop running Win98). I still managed to converse with a few people back home in Toronto and squeeze off an email to a friend we were meeting up with in Salt Lake City. It still brings a wry smile to my face then I see 'flyingj' in my list of access points on that old lappy.

I've read a bit about that project in Oregon, but I still get an uneasy feeling. I've been online since 1992 using Lynx under the first ISP up here. Even text mode browsing was mind numbing when I realized some of those files I was grabbing were from Japan and I wasn't paying long distance. There was also one noticeable difference between browsing today and back then; no ads.

The connection I'm trying to draw here, is that no matter where you go on the web today, you're bombarded with ads to generate revenue for 'free' services.

Where's the money in community WiFi? The corporate backing needed to fund projects like this can't be done out of the goodness of their hearts because, simply, most don't have one. Are we going to need data-miner ridden third party connectivity aps that 'conveniently' reimburse our providers by flooding us with popup ads every minute?
 
Remote User is offline Remote User
2005-11-27 , 17:11
Posts: 192 | Thanked: 5 times | Joined on Nov 2005 @ Eugene, Oregon
#9
Originally Posted by Hedgecore
I've read a bit about that project in Oregon, but I still get an uneasy feeling. Even text mode browsing was mind numbing when I realized some of those files I was grabbing were from Japan and I wasn't paying long distance. Where's the money in community WiFi?
Here's a link to the 700 sq. mile WiFi cloud.
http://www.dailywireless.org/modules...ticle&sid=3396
The cloud was built because it was the cheapest way to put a badly needed regional communications system into place. The decision was made early on to allow the people who lived there to make use of the bandwidth, only a tiny fraction of which was needed to meet the need for which it was actually built.

Municipalities and even countries are realising that the list benefits of ubiquitous, open wireless is a long, long list, and that it is easy to justify the cost of building these wireless clouds. Moreover, the cost of doing so is quickly decreasing, even as the performance characteristics of the clouds is rapidly rising. So, counting on these clouds to be there is getting to be a surer bet all the time, benefiting so many people in so many ways as they do. The 770 just happens to be the device best suited to exploit the Internet clouds, is all. Many analogies could be drawn about how it is playing out.
 
Karel Jansens's Avatar
Karel Jansens is offline Karel Jansens
2005-11-27 , 19:01
Posts: 3,220 | Thanked: 326 times | Joined on Oct 2005 @ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)
#10
Originally Posted by Remote User
True enough, for now. I read a version of Google News that I've customized to look for news with words like WiFi, WiMAX, BlueTooth, Zigbee and MIMO. Bandwidth and range are dramatically increasing, day by day. It's clear from all the news that soon devices like the 770 will be connecting to the net from just about anywhere.

In eastern Oregon, where relatively very few Oregonians live, you can log on, for free, to the net with a wireless device even as you're tooling down I-84 at 70 MPH. 600 Square miles out there are covered by a mesh network that is open to all. The 770 and devices like it will thrive because of projects like this that are springing up everywhere. The 770 is far more valuable as a remote network touchscreen display than it is as a PDA, as we're all finding out. Nokia has specifically mentioned VOIP in a soon-to-arrive firmware upgrade so I'm jazzed about that.

And look at the fast growing intensity of discovery going on here at ITT, even with only a few of us able to get our hands on a 770 so far (I'm not included yet, either). I'm beginning to think that the 770 and Free Software are an explosion that rock the world. For a long, long time tech types have been preoccupied with tech for its own sake. I think now that tech types have an opportunity to change their focus now to the practical side of tech. All the evidence I need to convince me of that is right here at ITT, at the Maemo site, and in my own experiences, which cover several decades.

We had steam engines for almost 300 years before somebody put one on wheels. At that point a few people realized that petroleum-driven engines were the way to go. The result was that we became mobile. It was not even 100 years ago and look at it now. At some point technologies that have been around for a while converge and things that were not even imagined become possible. I think we're at that point now. All I can do personally until the 770 is widely available is to try to help everyone extend their visions of what is newly possible. I'm also learning a lot - especially that there are some very clever and very determined 770 owners in every market where it's available.
I'll help you hoping. Still, a ubiquitous WiFi network, as we know it, will, IMHO, ground to a screeching halt in very little time. It's not so much the bandwith as the infrastructure that will cause this. The Internet protocols will need some serious overhauling to allow for the kind of traffic you have in mind.

And I second Hedgecore 's question as to where's the money in the whole thing. you can't seriously expect ISP's to keep forking over. I know they are screwing customers over here in Belgium, but in any normal economy their margins are pretty basic.

Still, nothing that can't be overcome: new protocols have been in the pipeline for some time, and have sofar been a solution in search of a problem; and a GSM-like subscription (maybe with a virtual kind of SIM-card) could solve problem # 2.

Upward & onward, eh?
 
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