I think many proposed for Jolla / Mer folks to make such site a whole while ago, specifically before the launch of the product. But limited resources probably prevented it. And naturally TMO is now the main hub for all the relevant discussions, since there not much comparable out there (as of now), if you don't count mailing lists and IRC of course.

am torn really, while the prospect of a new forum would be nice, and Jolla will need to realistically stand on its own two feet with its own community no matter how you look at it. It can't forget it's roots, since TMO in just value of information is worth so much. realistically if TMO was to become Jolla centric it would need large restructuring as the Jolla would need to be the center of it all. Doing that to TMO is just plain wrong, so I can understand the need for there own forum, but it shouldn't be a clean break, it should be a new alliance.

FMC been an alternative FOSS forum that competed with tmo while Nokia same time had their own forum.nokia.com and whatnot else. This FMC/tmo redundancy been a pretty stupid move causing duplicate effort and split of community.

Sure Jolla MUST have own forum, just like Nokia does. It's a forum run by a company and targeted at that company's customers. Jolla sells a commercial product, so they need a user forum that of course is run and ruled by Jolla (helpdesk) and called jolla.com/forum or whatever.

Then OTOH we got FOSS projects, like nemo and - at least that been my impression until recently that changed - sailfish. Some developer might want to engage with and contribute to sailfish, possibly without ever owning a Jolla device. When I were that FOSS developer, I'd feel quite uncomfortable to post about my porting of sailfish to $xy-platform on a forum ruled and run and censored by a company like Jolla. I'd rather like to use a community owned forum like tmo for that, particularly seeing that a lot of other sailfish developers are already here and a lot more of potential future sailfish developers been here since ages doing development for maemo and meego and harmattan and thus providing all the knowledge base that sailfish/nemo is based on. Now if the company (Jolla) would explicitly state that they support the sailfish movement in tmo and want to contribute as peers among peers (and actually DO so), that would be the icing on top. I don't see any need for Jolla to create a new place for all the users interested in sailfish in here, and/or for those that may want to come and join here when they start looking into sailfish development. OTOH when jolla-forum.com would attract same developers that are already in here, do you think Jolla-forum.com would be a better place than this forum, for non-developer game-playing kids and dads who buy a gift for their wife, in the end?

It seems like stezz is not distinguishing between sailfish "community" and jolla customer base "community" and the maemo-et-al FOSS community or "THE FOSS community" at large, between user groups and developer communities. There's a thing like the FOSS spirit and I fail to find it in Jolla's activities so far, just like it always been hard to find in how Nokia acted.

Hope my take on it is more clear now.

cheers
/j

To differentiate, I'd expect something on sailfish.org to be Sailfish (FOSS) community related (roughly comparable to meego.com), and something on jolla.com to be Jolla exclusively related (roughly comparable to nokia.com). However, in practice Sailfish is inseparable from Jolla at the moment, so this indeed can create some confusion. I got the impression though that Jolla intended Sailfish to be more broad in the future.

what you're saying is basically "there are many communities, like 'sailfish devels that came from ubuntu' and 'sailfish devels that are from commercial background' and so on" and you assume they would get scared away here since they are not related to maemo (or whatever is the exact definition you are using to characterize this forum's members) and since the users in here are a pretty unbearable and unfriendly bunch. Thus - you say - all those groups need a different place to meet which is not "infested" by the existing community of scary jolla fans in here, which is what you plan to provide.

My (our?) view on things differs: we welcome everybody to join in here, tmo is open to everybody, we are NOT afraid to grow, and we believe in ONE FOSS COMMUNITY (NOT talk.maemo.org community) which loves to meet in one place when it comes to a certain definite topic (usually the place where others already are, that's established and "on-topic", where the knowledge is readily available). This place is already there: it's this very forum as of now - for maemo and meego and nemo and sailfish topic (it has it all: the forum infra, the users/devels, the broad deep comprehensive knowledge base aka archive [and related wiki]).

Obviously there actually is just one separate and different "community" which doesn't fit into this FOSS definition, and that's Jolla's customers and I couldn't agree more that those need a new forum run and ruled by jolla and that some of the members of that group actually wouldn't feel comfortable here, particularly since this forum isn't the direct channel to Jolla helpdesk your customers expect you to provide to them - tmo is community driven and thus exactly the right thing for a FOSS community but definitely NOT for a corporate customer helpdesk.

Oh, and maybe it's again time for my quarterly excuse: I'm often sounding harsh or even insulting, sorry that's because of my poor english writing skills, I'm not at all evil-minded and I plea for forgiveness from those who felt intimidated by my style.

We offered

• jolla-developer-forum.com CNAME http://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=52
• custom skin/theming automatically active (only!) for vHost jolla-developer-forum.com respective for those users who registered via that vHost, to maintain Jolla "corporate identity"
• moderator permissions on http://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=52 for Jolla employees or/and community members appointed by Jolla

What else could possibly be needed?

You're aware that talk.maemo.org just been exactly the same CNAME and skin and subforum thing to http://www.internettablettalk.com/ until 12 months ago? So when it evidently worked for talk.maemo.org just fine, how could it be any problematic for a jolla forum to be similar CNAME+skin to this very subforum here? New users entering via (e.g.) forum.jolla.com wouldn't even notice they are on maemo.org, just like you probably never noticed you were on internettablettalk.com until 12 months ago when we merged things.

@joerg
Thank you for the last posts.

They do express it way better. And I have the same opinion.
Let's see how Jolla company will do ...

P.S: I hope they will not go the way of 'discussions.jolla.com'. But in the end it is their company/business and we need to accept that.
Nevertheless (as stated already): here on tmo is already the base for Sailfish and I believe it will stay that way even if they do their own Jolla thing.

Unless they create well coordinated/integrated infra (not just a forum) that's truly inclusive/open to all MeR derivatives, & (longer-term) a independent NFP entity -which I doubt they'll do.

AFAIK they already sponsoring some MeR infra servers if I remember correct.

Yes, I know that, it's just not all tied together in the same way (or in a improved way) as maemo.org was/is.