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Drekkie is offline Drekkie
2011-07-09 , 02:43
Posts: 170 | Thanked: 386 times | Joined on Dec 2009
#311
Originally Posted by ericsson View Post
I saw you in anither thread, so i guess you are asking me. I have no idea what the questions was, so I answer: yes, butterly and north.
I think both times it was asked it was regarding WP7 locale and regional zune ecosystem access issues, for starters (if I could paraphrase).

"North" is probably a fitting answer for that.

edit: I see gerbick has it well in hand.
Last edited by Drekkie; 2011-07-09 at 02:48.
 

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qwazix is offline qwazix
2011-07-09 , 08:17
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#312
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
That was from the second time I had asked. What good is an ecosystem when it's not available there? Seriously. Solve that riddle.

And it's not like the Zune Marketplace is brand new. It's been around for quite some time, never left (to me) the domestic market.
Is localizing a website and app so difficult? I bet they can do it by tomorrow morning.
 
ericsson is offline ericsson
2011-07-09 , 08:56
Banned | Posts: 974 | Thanked: 622 times | Joined on Oct 2010
#313
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
That was from the second time I had asked. What good is an ecosystem when it's not available there? Seriously. Solve that riddle.

And it's not like the Zune Marketplace is brand new. It's been around for quite some time, never left (to me) the domestic market.
The short answer: Irrelevant

The long answer: Who cares? or - who cares in the short range, and why is this relevant? WP will only gradually be introduced. In Europe only UK, France, Germany, Spain and Holland will see the Sea Ray. The rest will have the N9, and the N9 will use Ovi. It will take another 6-12 months before WP is available throughout Europe on Nokia. To my knowledge Zune marketplace already exist in all those locations, for instance:
http://www.zune.net/de-DE/products/w...e7/default.htm

Besides, the xbox is available anywhere.

But I am not familiar with Zune at all, so maybe you could explain in more detail what the exact problem is. It's not like it takes years to set up online services over here
 
NokTokDaddy is offline NokTokDaddy
2011-07-09 , 09:22
Posts: 248 | Thanked: 240 times | Joined on Mar 2010 @ Wiltshire, UK
#314
Originally Posted by TheLongshot View Post
I think you underestimate how his actions affected Symbian.
  • I could put that the other way around, but we'll never know know. All we do know is thet even before Elop Nokia & Symbian were in trouble and under attach from critics - just like they are now, in fact...


"Certainly you can see it in the stock price: most think Symbian is dead and that there is little to look forward to with Nokia."
  • If most thought Symbian was dead it would not be selling as well as it still is, so I do not agree. Just look at how many millions of devices Nokia are still selling; most buyers are ignorant of the political wranglings and just see more devices coming from Nokia. Most of them will be ignorant of the platform or OS used.

    I am not denying that Symbian's market share and stock is falling, but that does not matter to the average individual who goes into the store to buy their next phone. Nokia has a huge following with a corresponding brand loyalty; do not confuse that with the platform or OS.

    Symbian sales will fall further, I have no doubt. But Symbian is so big Nokia can carry that loss for quite some time. New developments like Anna and Belle will add appeal whilst Nokia build interest in their WP devices. We know there will be new Symbian devices until about 2014 and support will continue until 2016 at least.

    By that time Windows Phone will be fully established, fully featured and fully supported in the markets.


"Fact is Elop royally ****ed up in that he made such an announcement without having another product to fill the gap. A few months later and we still don't really know when Nokia will release their first Windows Phone. Meanwhile, the N9 is coming out and Elop has done a lot to undercut that. Who the hell thinks that's a smart way to run a business?"
  • Only time will tell. A plan needs time to play out and it's early days yet. We can't call this a good or bad plan until Nokia have had at least a year selling WP devices. To write off any plan this early is an emotional response that is not tempered with reason.


"Which, again, benefits Microsoft more than it does Nokia".
  • Nokia were the weaker party, Microsoft the stronger; That's buisiness. Nokia do get value out of the relationship; the ratio does not matter unless you're looking at this from an emotional perspective. Like I said, this is business.


"Given the new direction, they might as well be unrecoverable for the purposes of this forum. We were drawn to the power of Maemo and the promise of its potential. Elop seems to be doing everything possible to kill that dream, with nothing to replace it. It certainly won't be Windows Phone."
  • I think Elop might be our best hope in the long run. The fact that the N9 will make it to market and the fact that the N950 is a developer phone suggests to me that despite Elop's understandable focus on WP, devices like the N9 have a future at Nokia.

    Right now he has to keep pushing the WP message. Every new product, every new technology and feature from Nokia must carry the WP message in some way, but read between the lines:

    I do not believe Nokia will discard the N9 approach. They may not develop Meego further - that is something else, but I can see value and potential for a more Maemo-like platform (i.e. an entirely Nokia, but still open-source OS) with maybe one or two devices a year to showcase disruptive technologies and developments.



"Speaking as a Nokia stockholder, I'm also disappointed in that aspect, because I'm wondering when Nokia is going to come out with a product that they are going to be fully behind. Certainly not for the rest of this year."
  • Earlier you were criticising Elop for focussing entirely on WP and now you're saying he is not fully behind anything at the same time? You can't have it both ways!
 
ericsson is offline ericsson
2011-07-09 , 10:31
Banned | Posts: 974 | Thanked: 622 times | Joined on Oct 2010
#315
Originally Posted by NokTokDaddy View Post
  • I could put that the other way around, but we'll never know know. All we do know is thet even before Elop Nokia & Symbian were in trouble and under attach from critics - just like they are now, in fact...


"Certainly you can see it in the stock price: most think Symbian is dead and that there is little to look forward to with Nokia."
  • If most thought Symbian was dead it would not be selling as well as it still is, so I do not agree. Just look at how many millions of devices Nokia are still selling; most buyers are ignorant of the political wranglings and just see more devices coming from Nokia. Most of them will be ignorant of the platform or OS used.

    I am not denying that Symbian's market share and stock is falling, but that does not matter to the average individual who goes into the store to buy their next phone. Nokia has a huge following with a corresponding brand loyalty; do not confuse that with the platform or OS.

    Symbian sales will fall further, I have no doubt. But Symbian is so big Nokia can carry that loss for quite some time. New developments like Anna and Belle will add appeal whilst Nokia build interest in their WP devices. We know there will be new Symbian devices until about 2014 and support will continue until 2016 at least.

    By that time Windows Phone will be fully established, fully featured and fully supported in the markets.


"Fact is Elop royally ****ed up in that he made such an announcement without having another product to fill the gap. A few months later and we still don't really know when Nokia will release their first Windows Phone. Meanwhile, the N9 is coming out and Elop has done a lot to undercut that. Who the hell thinks that's a smart way to run a business?"
  • Only time will tell. A plan needs time to play out and it's early days yet. We can't call this a good or bad plan until Nokia have had at least a year selling WP devices. To write off any plan this early is an emotional response that is not tempered with reason.


"Which, again, benefits Microsoft more than it does Nokia".
  • Nokia were the weaker party, Microsoft the stronger; That's buisiness. Nokia do get value out of the relationship; the ratio does not matter unless you're looking at this from an emotional perspective. Like I said, this is business.


"Given the new direction, they might as well be unrecoverable for the purposes of this forum. We were drawn to the power of Maemo and the promise of its potential. Elop seems to be doing everything possible to kill that dream, with nothing to replace it. It certainly won't be Windows Phone."
  • I think Elop might be our best hope in the long run. The fact that the N9 will make it to market and the fact that the N950 is a developer phone suggests to me that despite Elop's understandable focus on WP, devices like the N9 have a future at Nokia.

    Right now he has to keep pushing the WP message. Every new product, every new technology and feature from Nokia must carry the WP message in some way, but read between the lines:

    I do not believe Nokia will discard the N9 approach. They may not develop Meego further - that is something else, but I can see value and potential for a more Maemo-like platform (i.e. an entirely Nokia, but still open-source OS) with maybe one or two devices a year to showcase disruptive technologies and developments.



"Speaking as a Nokia stockholder, I'm also disappointed in that aspect, because I'm wondering when Nokia is going to come out with a product that they are going to be fully behind. Certainly not for the rest of this year."
  • Earlier you were criticising Elop for focussing entirely on WP and now you're saying he is not fully behind anything at the same time? You can't have it both ways!
Glad to see the thread has entered a more constructive path. The only thing we know for a fact is that the focus is on WP, and that's it really. Well, we know one more thing. The N9 will be the flagship device in Europe in those countries not part of the first batch of WP (Scandinavia, Swiss, Austria, Belgium etc), but WP will enter the really big markets, UK, Germany, France and Spain.

In 1-2 years when WP has got a foothold, everything else except S40/S30 will become increasingly irrelevant, but they will also become increasingly non threatening as a distraction from WP. Nokia is perfectly capable of having several balls in the air at the same time, so who knows what will eventually happen to Symbian and Harmattan. Symbian is firmly off Nokias shoulders, 100% at accenture and Harmattan has an UI that is so simple and ingenious that it could stay like that forever, a multitasking task switcher in its purest form. The UI equivalence of the xterm. I think we will see more of this - eventually.
 
gerbick
2011-07-09 , 12:26
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#316
Originally Posted by qwazix View Post
Is localizing a website and app so difficult? I bet they can do it by tomorrow morning.
That's not the problem. Distribution of content, music, videos have to be worked out in each area first. Sorta like how Spotify is just now coming to the US after being huge overseas.

Or how some videos on YouTube are limited only to the UK, but not available in the US.

Without those deals in place, and it's never instant... that poses to be a problem for the content portion(s) or they will have to release a crippled Zune connectivity software - like they have for the Mac - which only checks for updates and syncs already purchased apps and contacts... but doesn't have the full promised ecosystem promised.

I don't doubt that localization couldn't be done quickly. It's the content of the ecosystem that's going to not be delivered.

But... this is pure speculation... that could be why the WP7 phones are coming later in the year. They're working out the deals now on content in the areas.
 

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misterc is offline misterc
2011-07-09 , 13:07
Posts: 1,625 | Thanked: 998 times | Joined on Aug 2010
#317
Originally Posted by NokTokDaddy View Post
[...]
Nokia were the weaker party, Microsoft the stronger; That's buisiness. Nokia do get value out of the relationship; the ratio does not matter unless you're looking at this from an emotional perspective. Like I said, this is business.
[...]
you seem to have a hard time keeping things apart.
m$ may be dominant in the PC market.
in the mobile phone market... >/nul
granted, you are not the only one making this mistake

in the mobile phone market, even though NOKIA's position is weakened, they are still dwarfing m$ by a long shot.

Originally Posted by NokTokDaddy View Post
[...]
I am not denying that Symbian's market share and stock is falling, but that does not matter to the average individual who goes into the store to buy their next phone. Nokia has a huge following with a corresponding brand loyalty; do not confuse that with the platform or OS.
[...]
Right now he has to keep pushing the WP message. Every new product, every new technology and feature from Nokia must carry the WP message in some way
[...]
why push the wp message if there is such a brand loyality & customers don't care what OS it is running, as long as there is NOKIA standing on it?

you are contradicting yourself in a single post
try keeping them shorter, maybe?

Originally Posted by NokTokDaddy View Post
[...]
Only time will tell. A plan needs time to play out and it's early days yet. We can't call this a good or bad plan until Nokia have had at least a year selling WP devices. To write off any plan this early is an emotional response that is not tempered with reason.
[...]
just because they changed the name from mobile to portable doesn't make it a new product; it is still the same old buggy software that hasn't been able to gain any significant market share in over 10 years. during those 10 years, NOKIA single handedly created the smart phone & had a de facto monopoly 'til the competition got around to it too. but not m$, nope.
and it is not by lack of companies having tried, neither;
two years before NOKIA made this mistake LG entered an "exclusive" agreement w/ m$ according to which LG is still supposed to have 50 (fifty) wm (then) devices in its assortment by 2012;
a couple months ago, LG jumped onto the MeeGo bandwagon. and m$ may deem itself lucky if LG has even only 5 wp devices next year.


bottom line being that the m$ is the winner & NOKIA is losing any chance to survive once wp has confirmed yet again it has no market appeal.
well, considering the "loyality"as you say, respectively, the situation of most dumb phone markets world wide, they may still recover making & selling S40 devices where infrastructure for "smart phones" (3/4G mostly) is simply not available.
 

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Rugoz is offline Rugoz
2011-07-09 , 13:54
Posts: 457 | Thanked: 600 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#318
In 1-2 years when WP has got a foothold, everything else except S40/S30 will become increasingly irrelevant, but they will also become increasingly non threatening as a distraction from WP.
The question is if WP will get a foothold. Until now its essentially irrelevant. Some say its the lack of features and nice hardware. I don't see how the hardware is inferior to those of android devices. The omnia 7 looks nice IMO. The windows brand does not seem to sell phones worldwide, nokia essentially poisons its own valuable brand with windows. Elop does not seem to understand that people have a far more intimate relationship to their mobile phones that to PCs.
 

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qwazix is offline qwazix
2011-07-09 , 14:49
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#319
for many years now I haven't seen any user being proud of using windows on their pc, They are either forced to do it, don't know there is an alternative, not willing to try something else, or plain indifferent. Why transfer that indifference to the phone industry where everybody wants to be proud about their choice of smartphone is still beyond my understanding. If I was microsoft I would leverage a different brand, more fun and less connected with work, viruses and BSoD's for portable devices. Also they are confusing people with all these unrelated service brands: zune, xbox, bing, windows marketplace. Zune is irrelevant, if not completely unknown in europe, and connected with a spectacular failure in the USA. bing is weak in europe too, and with weak performance too in producing relevant local results. Only the metro ui appeals to me on this platform marketing-wise, and it's not the easiest ui to swallow. I doubt this marketing spaghetti can turn around this ship, and nokia adds with more confusion, ovi store, nokia maps... brand hell. If i was mikrokia (meaning the joint venture) I would make a new brand and push it down users throats as the new big fancy thing.
 

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BigBadGuber! is offline BigBadGuber!
2011-07-09 , 15:38
Banned | Posts: 706 | Thanked: 296 times | Joined on May 2010
#320
Just got my nokia E6.....and I am very unhappy. I tried to connect with the same settings I have on my iPhone to my work email. I get an error. Can't connect. What a piss off. That is Symboan in a nutshell and why Americans will not use it. Too many unforced errors as they say in tennis.
 
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