If E7 OS is anything like n8, its a total disappointment.

Good, I'd hate to be right all the time :)

S3 is a young OS, it was launched Oct 2010 and it had one device for a while. E7 was the second device, and it was launched Feb 2011. Still, Ovi shows 93 pages of 12 apps per page in the "free" category. That's approx 1100 apps and games in ~6 months, more than N900 had at this age, and, like I said, it will go up.

E7 doesn't benefit from all the ports N900 did, however, it does benefit from a huge app base from S60. A lot of apps are compatible, but there wasn't time to test and push them, you'll need to use Google, other phone sites, look for them. Other OSs don't have the centralized repository concept Linux does, each user can publish his own content. Many do, as Nokia puts apps through tests and each version takes 8-14 days to push through.

I agree that 1000 N900 apps don't equal 1000 S3 apps, because with N900 it was ports first so we got cool/necessary stuff first, and with S3 we get fart apps first, since they are easier to port or even forward compatible. Still, give it time.

Also, apps are cheap. One dollar is not something one can't afford for a good app. I paid for a few. At least I have the option. There is no full screen caller or customizable ring screen for N900, and I always wanted that. Having the option is important I think. You can always beg on a forum for someone to offer you one for free, as is the case here. For me, that was always one of the things I hated.

I am unsure about which connectivity you are talking about. If you mean wlan/BT/USB, then I think E7 is better overall. It is annoying to see it close connections to WLAN all the time, but when I turned it off it went from 2 days usage to almost one. Back to power saving it went in 0.3 seconds. BT is the same. USB is nicer.

If you mean chat/skype/IM then N900 was better. As it stands written in the review, Telepathy is unparalleled. Still, there are solutions. I have a green round think on my desktop showing I'm online on G Chat. No voice or video though.

Yes it can. In and out.

Agreed. So does E7. How is this disagreeing? :) I never said E7 was right for a wedding. And it has that farsightedness that's annoying. Still, if you do a home video, you can do it in 720p smooth, or in 480 choppy.

[QUOTE=vkthor;1068745] And the screen? Seriously, you think a 640x360 screen, however good or amoled it'd be, is better than a 800x480 one? I for sure don't think so. Browsing with the E7's browser is a living hell, Opera does a nice job but it is in fact a MOBILE browser while Fennec is a desktop one (flash included).[QUOTE]

Screens aren't always about text. With text, resolution is better. With images and multimedia, color rendering is better. If you are reading a text site, N900 is the way to go. You don't want to hold it next to E7 with a picture showing, though.

What I'm trying to say is, there's almost never something "better" in every way - there are people who claim we were better off in caves. All advances are tradeoffs (except maybe IDE) and there will always be a drawback - LCD has no blacks, plasmas eat power and burn in easily, CRT is bulky and gives you cancer, DLP has no contrast, 3D gives people headaches, OLED loses color balance in time, and so on. Let's not even start on how most can't afford what technology can do, but what cheap technology can do.

You may spend 90% of the time reading full text pages - the E7 might not be the best for you. Though it is my personal opinion that while you can't cram as much text as you can with N900, it's usable.

E7 is a smartphone, N900 is an Internet Tablet, and, more than that, it's a platform that runs Linux, as crippled as that Linux is. Some things are derived from this difference and will never go away - such as no terminal and gconftool and no conflict of thumbnailerd with camera because of not-for-phone multitasking design.

I have a distinct feeling that your "disagreeing" is mostly agreeing with findings but disagreeing with verdicts (am I wrong?). In which case I'd like to point out that verdicts are subjective, it is the order of things. Victory is life!

Hi ndi

I've just sent my N900 to repair under warranty, and being wary I may only be offerred a N8/E7 in return thought I'd give this thread a read.

Thank you for your detailed review, it's nice to have a alternate viewpoint, and with the (likely) reveal of Belle tomorrow I am tempted to try out a Symbian model myself after seeing the impressive youtube clips of it in action.

Just a few questions - hope they haven't been asked already!

1. Have you any experience with the N8? If so, any comparisons to the E7?

2. You praise the camera of the E7, I did as you said and googled it and the results where underwhelming to what I was expecting e.g. http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/revie...ra_and_mul.php

Do you have a link/examples of the camera excelling I could look at? Or are there camera apps that help the lack of short focus?

3. Was your review based on Symbian Anna? If not, have you since updated to Anna? Any significant improvements?

Whilst I'm sure I'll miss the removable battery, FM transmitter, macro function, SD card, larger internal memory: the advantages you have listed do seem enticing.

Thanks again for the in-depth analysis, hope you have time to answer my queries.

As a matter of fact I have.

AFAICT, it's exactly the same as E7, with some differences:

* Camera has more megapixels in still mode, but same optics for N8 versus E7, so little gain in quality (see low light notes below).
* N8 has SD card and FM transmitter.
* E7 has physical keyboard
* E7 has office editors and a few other minor software differences.
* Even though E7 is larger, N8 is only 3 mm thinner with 10 mm shorter so it looks slightly more stout. It's just a feeling though, might have something to do with the angles at which the margins are finished. Side by side, E7 looks like a slab. It's incredible what 1 cm does :). Guess size does matter. Who knew.
* Menu button is off-center in N8. Better in portrait, worse in landscape. N8 doesn't really like landscape except for OSK.

I don't find the camera in E7 lacking (overall) but like I said there are a few things to consider:

a) More pixels than other phones (N900 included). That means less light per pixel. It's physics and I covered it in a post a while ago while reviewing N900 camera. So, poorer dark performance. The shots in the review are not doing it justice. A moving subject in a poorly lit room is a challenge for any camera. Try to find a still image in dark.

This only grows worse as resolution goes up (hint: N8).

Surely you knew instinctively a crammed-in-a-phone 20$ camera can't beat a 2-kilo 2000$ camera. It will not be up to all tasks. Specifically, low light poor performance, lack of focus, poor colors (let's not start that old that-phone-has-excellent-colors talk. They cheat and it shows - for a trained eye it's more obvious than redneck wood spoilers). Some of these (like focus) are specific to E7/N8, others are generic for all.

Also, just throwing it out there, I've had people telling me my DSLR pictures look worse than their phone pictures. Make sure you're not watching through a laptop screen, brightness cranked up. When comparing cameras, try a good display, properly balanced, and remember that 8MPx is four times what a full HD can display.

But I rant.

b) It has NO focus. So, there is nothing you can do to take pictures from closer than 40 cm away. You can, but optical loss is greater than digital, so just zoom in. No software can help defeat physics. On the bright side, video is perfect. None of that zooming-in-the-middle, poor focus, shifting focus, etc.

I skimmed through the review you linked as much as my overcaffeinated brain would allow (read: 45 seconds) and it seems to support my view. Great outdoors, poor indoors, like all other cameras that didn't make you slouch when you carry them. No shock there.

I find it performs better than N900 (minus the close-up).

That being said

I looked on Google images as you suggested for various shots claimed to be E7 images and found that not only they are in short supply, but many of them have been tagged (EXIF) as taken with X7, N8, etc and posted as equivalents. In fact, I only found a handful of E7 images that haven't been resized and those aren't exactly prime examples.

I can't attach here and all hosting sites I know resize images. So try:

http://www.mediafire.com/?vus3rfk47ka4lha
http://www.mediafire.com/?nyafp0tx7fc2zih
http://www.mediafire.com/?a3pk2cbhk2ofb1q

The shots are:

Romania seaside (sunny)
Bucharest business (cloudy)
Bucharest sunset from terrace (just before sunset. As you can see, some areas are already black, it was the last few minutes of light)

Not necessarily in that order. Feels like a nice slice of performance.

Also, for resetting your monitor, here's a 2 MPx shot of a flower with my Zeiss glass Sony Alpha, to contrast the 8 MPx phone:

http://www.mediafire.com/?keo1cmkm1i1t76h

The 2MPx image is a cutout from the 10 MPx of the camera raw. Notice the noise, JPEG artifacts and contours. Yeah. Megapixels my foot.

No, and I have not - they are now rolling the update in areas and device codes, and because their servers are stomped they are spreading the load. I'll be getting it in the next few days.

I could poke at it via an off-channel download but I'd rather not. I'm not sure if flasher can solve it if I nuke the phone. :)

Besides, Anna is appetizer. I've seen Belle in demos and I wants me some of that.

However, I advise you to get Anna ASAP. They fix a few things in browser that are annoying, like an actual back button. And then Belle. In fact, they seem to be going forward. That alone is worth a few ... somethings. I have to stop typing replies after midnight.

Non-removable battery ain't bad. You can still pull it via hold-the-button that power cycles the device - unless you were hoping to use a desktop charger and a second battery it's no big deal. Also, screwdriver.

FM Transmitter is available in N8 but not in E7.

Macro is shot. Just ... shot. There is no workaround, no software, nothing. You'll have to live with it.

SD card is no biggie IMO. Some disagree, not me. 16G is plenty. Also, USB OTG means plug-a-stick. Tried it, it's fast and supports backup and restore everything to stick, plus mount and use. Pretty cool. Carrying a cable not as fun. I wasn't carrying a card with me either, frankly. I also tried keyboard and mouse. The geek in me was smiling all through the experience.

Also, I bought the HDMI cable and got Nokia Big Screen from Beta labs. That is seriously cool. Image, video, music, slideshows and BT remote that works with Wii (or an USB device, assumingly). Phones have never been closer to HTPCs. It also works with the normal phone screen so web with mouse on a screen. (low resolution though)

Some people like to carry tons of gigabytes with them. I had, at most, 10G on N900 and it held 48G - no reason to hold back. It's just I never keep everything with me. Pics belong on a RAID array, in chronological order or by event, and only a few are left on the phone.

Gladly.

Thanks for the detailed (as always) response ndi, especially the first hand images - it's always nice when someone presents the evidence so you can make your own judgements. (btw Romania looks nice! Might have to visit! )

Thanks for your N8 comparison - I love QWERTY keyboards too much (especially after the great one, imo, the N900 has) to go touch screen only, just thought I'd check in case there were some additional features I had missed, seems no is the answer.

I like photography, but being a poor debt ridden student whose camera broke, my N900 was my only tool available - and looking back at my photos I seemed to take a lot of close range shots hence why I asked. Hopefully I can save for a DSLR or micro4/3 cam for my desired macro fun!

Good to hear Anna offers improvements, I too was mightily impressed with Belle but if I do get a E7 I am slightly worried how long I'll have to wait till it and the other older Anna models receive the update...
Do you think Nokia will release the update in time with their Q4 predictions?

Thanks for your frank comments on the features I mentioned I'll miss, another one I realised is I mainly browse text heavy sites, so N900's higher res might be better in that regards.

But to be honest you've put forward such a convincing argument for the E7 (combined with the impressive Belle videos Nokia released) I think I'll be able to live without them.

Sorry to pester you with more questions, but:

What exactly does BIgScreen do? I was under the impressions the E7 could output via HDMI without the need for an ap?

You said the E7 can stream audio/video in and out...could you elaborate for me?

You also mentioned "it is annoying to see it close connections to WLAN all the time"...again could you expand on this, does the E7 have trouble establishing a stable connection over wifi?


Thanks again for your extremely helpful feedback, I'm now not worrying if I "only" get a E7 offered as a replacement - I think I'll be happy either way!

Imagine a future mobile device with an high-sensitivity 1/1.8 CMOS e2v sensor... ok, but's only 1280x1024 what i have here. Don't know if they produce higher pixel counts.

You're well informed, but the above is definitely not true. The N8 has much better optics than the E7, and a far larger sensor (in fact the sensor is larger than that of many compact cameras). So a better low-light performance, even per pixel I would estimate. And it has a Xenon flash, which further helps low-light performance.

He is just trying to justify his E7 replacement. He couldn't even accept that N900 is much much better at web browsing than E7, it's like comparing GS2 with E7. That's the only point I didn't agree with mostly and he put me on the ignore list, read my comments for proof.

However, his ignorant talk on N8's camera is pathetic right now. It has the largest sensor like you said, autofocus unit, xenon, less post processing since it's going for the DSLR natural look. It surely getss much more technical than this, but he obviously is bowing to his E7, hence the rants. Ignorant fanboyism annoys me as much those damn mosquitos.

Yeah, stating that more pixels equals less light per pixel is one of the greatest examples of fanboyism on this forum.

It is when it's used out of context. He is aware that N8 is the best camera phone, even better than lots of digicams and yet rants on with technical b.s. in order to get himself satisfied by justifying his purchase. If he can talk in so much detail in every post and yet lack the knowledge about N8's winning camera, that's fanboyism right there. Read his responses to my posts on the first couple of pages, no reason for putting someone trying to have a constructive discussion on an ignore list.