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Is there a section to talk about Java ME? Apps, etc. (6)
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2009-10-23
, 16:35
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@ UK
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#62
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Originally Posted by Rushmore
+ engineering complexity + additional space.
Folks, no way to spin this. The N900 should have had 512mb of flash (Probably add $75 more to cost though?)
Anyway, no one's trying to "spin it", people are trying to fix it. Yes, it was stupid & braindead of Nokia to not realise this was going to be a problem until September 2009 (or at least communicate their proposed solution). However, it's time to move on and work with what we've got.
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Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org
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2009-10-23
, 16:42
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#63
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I don't believe being braindead has anything to do with it, I'm positive it's as y'all say a question about price, complexity etc.
On the other hand, I also think it's a priority they'd done differently if they had known earlier just how much better smartphones are in December 2009 compared to December 2008. There are clever product developers elsewhere, too. My claim is that smartphones in general has gotten better a whole lot faster the last 15ish months.
On the other hand, I also think it's a priority they'd done differently if they had known earlier just how much better smartphones are in December 2009 compared to December 2008. There are clever product developers elsewhere, too. My claim is that smartphones in general has gotten better a whole lot faster the last 15ish months.
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2009-10-23
, 16:43
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Joined on Mar 2006
@ Asturies, Spain
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#64
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What worries me as a developer is:
* Should I promote my packages (optified) to Extras when they depend on things like python (non-optified)?
I don't feel very well about my users doing it.
Put the example python because obviously it's my first interest (and it's in Extras yet), but the same could say for Qt dependencies, (even gtkmm/hildonmm?). AFAIK these are neither optified, and perhaps never will be.
In my opinion the real problem aren't the applications itself, generally they are few MB, but the dependent libraries.
People doing testing should check more these libraries.
* Should I promote my packages (optified) to Extras when they depend on things like python (non-optified)?
I don't feel very well about my users doing it.
Put the example python because obviously it's my first interest (and it's in Extras yet), but the same could say for Qt dependencies, (even gtkmm/hildonmm?). AFAIK these are neither optified, and perhaps never will be.
In my opinion the real problem aren't the applications itself, generally they are few MB, but the dependent libraries.
People doing testing should check more these libraries.
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2009-10-23
, 16:47
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#65
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That's what I'm talking about when I pointed out porting. The people with a heart for Maemo wants to concentrate on using or developing their own applications, while the libraries are only being ported because they have to. There's no enthusiasm about things you need to do but'd rather see someone else do.
As a developer who's not yet contributed anything to the community, I am a prime example
Oh, I suck.
As a developer who's not yet contributed anything to the community, I am a prime example
Oh, I suck.
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2009-10-23
, 16:48
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@ UK
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#66
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Originally Posted by qgil
This is disappointing in the context of #3279 and the effort the community is putting in on the QA process. However, it's also flawed if links to Maemo Select are going to be prominent on shipped devices. The first time a user installs a community app from Maemo Select, Extras is going to get enabled. Figuring that at least 90% of users will install one of the apps from Maemo Select and that it's 50/50 whether it's a community app, why not ship with Extras enabled out-of-the-box?
- maemo.org Extras pre-configured but not enabled by default. Users need to check the box if the repo hasn't been installed by other means.
Originally Posted by volt
Except the product managers and engineers knew they were using an OMAP3430 with the same amount of NAND space as the N810 over a year ago. And then a month before launch Nokia announce that pretty much every third party app has to install into a different location as there's not enough space on the rootfs? It was braindead. Truly. If the problem were properly recognised earlier (and it should've carried over from the N8x0 feedback), there are multiple cleaner solutions architecturally (which have been discussed in the original maemo-developers thread).
I don't believe being braindead has anything to do with it, I'm positive it's as y'all say a question about price, complexity etc.
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2009-10-23
, 16:50
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@ UK
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#67
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Originally Posted by volt
Which is why the conclusion at the BOF was that the buildbot would run maemo-optify on everything at some point in the future, unless the developer specifically told it not to, or the package already installed into /opt.
That's what I'm talking about when I pointed out porting. The people with a heart for Maemo wants to concentrate on using or developing their own applications, while the libraries are only being ported because they have to. There's no enthusiasm about things you need to do but'd rather see someone else do.
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2009-10-23
, 16:51
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@ US
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#68
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Originally Posted by Jaffa
I actually changed my post and got rid of the "spin" and everything else, since spin was a poor word choice. Adding 256mb more flash would have added $50 to $75 more dollars to the device. I think that common yield for flash is 256mb, so that is what EVERYONE buys- Nokia, HTC, Motorolla, etc. for phone devices.
+ engineering complexity + additional space.
Anyway, no one's trying to "spin it", people are trying to fix it. Yes, it was stupid & braindead of Nokia to not realise this was going to be a problem until September 2009 (or at least communicate their proposed solution). However, it's time to move on and work with what we've got.
I used to buy connectors and memory for IBM (before Lenovo) for motherboard production and consumer electronics for contract manufacturing. I appreciate the cost issues.
Still, as an N900 future user, about how many apps will I be able to install from the repository or other sources that adhere to the rules? Using the measure of 10 megs per app as an average.
How much space will we even have, considering some of that space is already taken?
Last edited by Rushmore; 2009-10-23 at 16:55.
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2009-10-23
, 16:52
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Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#69
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Originally Posted by qgil
I'd disagree with that assertion. It's the best compromise available given the late timeframe Nokia decided to try to solve the issue.
But we shared and discussed (read the maemo-developers archives) and what we have is what we have agreed to be the best solution available.
Originally Posted by qgil
As I've said elsewhere, this feels like a slap in the face to all of the people who have been working so hard on both the QA process and the packages going through it. It's made worse when you consider how trivial it is to get Extras enabled right from the desktop.
- maemo.org Extras pre-configured but not enabled by default. Users need to check the box if the repo hasn't been installed by other means.
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Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
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2009-10-23
, 17:45
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@ Oxford
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#70
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Originally Posted by Jaffa
Add-on software; not stuff that comes from the OS repositories. Which is why on a conventional Debian/Fedora/etc. system with all the software coming from OS debs/RPMs you'll find a completely empty /opt.
It's not a blatant FHS violation by any means. FHS allows for applications to be installed at /opt/<registered vendor id>/<package or whatever they want> or /opt/<package>:
That's also rather built into the assumptions that maemo-optify makes, since it will refuse to modify any package that's already using /opt for anything, so as designed it will only function on debs that don't use /opt directly.
Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org