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Neon Samurai	2008-10-03 , 12:53
Posts: 53 \| Thanked: 3 times \| Joined on Sep 2007 @ Toronto, Ontario, Canada	#431

Originally Posted by vinc17

Yes, one doesn't know why it keeps rebooting: no log, not a single error message. Ditto for the Application manager: one doesn't know what's going on when packages are installed (one doesn't even know what packages are installed), one doesn't know when something fails. While problems can often be solved after seeing logs / error messages under Unix, this is not possible here.

- there is a config file which includes the list of isntalled packages. I believe this is the source document for the GUI package manager. If you can't see the list of installed packages in your GUI app, you can instead get it from the text file directly. When upgrading between versions, I've copied this to reference when needing to know what nifty package I previously had installed. I'd give the location and name but I'm at work and can't confirm currently. Other's here will know where it is though (thought it was /etc/dpkg/ or /etc/apt/.. maybe a var. believe the file was packages.installed or similar)

- in terms of logging, I've considered adding syslogd to my install but I want to minimize what writes to the flash memory ratehr than hit the chips write limit any faster than I have too. I've had to many usb flashdrives hit there limit to rush my N810 into retirnment. You can install syslogd though if prefered.

Neon Samurai	2008-10-03 , 13:01
Posts: 53 \| Thanked: 3 times \| Joined on Sep 2007 @ Toronto, Ontario, Canada	#432

Originally Posted by Jaffa

Software doesn't fail randomly, unless there's a hardware failure.

You haven't worked with Windows much.

(sorry, I know it's completely off topic but I couldn't resist after giggling at that line a few times. Well written software will give an indication of why it has failed though; even if us humble end users don't know how to read that indication.)

	GeneralAntilles	2008-10-03 , 13:06
	Posts: 5,478 \| Thanked: 5,222 times \| Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL	#433

Originally Posted by vinc17

Some users said that the SSU broke their bootmenu, so how would this solve anything concerning the endless reboot loop?

Simple, take the jffs2 image the initfs_flasher generates and store it on your computer.

Originally Posted by vinc17

Moreover this wiki page doesn't mention the tools to get USB networking before the reboot (http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking is silent on this point too).

The USBNet article is a slightly different subject. The README for the initfs flasher contains all the relevant information.

In summary, hold down the menu key and plug in a USB cable.

Originally Posted by vinc17

Unfortunately not everyone remembers everything what they did since the last reflash, including things not done as root (as the SSU behavior also depends on user space, as it was shown).

Yes, well, they surely remember if they did something, and not report having done nothing when it's clearly not the case. Black periods are a symptom of a possibly severe neurological disorder.

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Neon Samurai	2008-10-03 , 13:21
Posts: 53 \| Thanked: 3 times \| Joined on Sep 2007 @ Toronto, Ontario, Canada	#434

Update:

I had some time this morning so I figured I'd leave my internal OS install to update. It hit a non-responsive update server and failed leaving me with a partial update; the majority of packages seem to be hanging at the GUI's "downloading" status bar. I grabbed any package related too networking that didn't hang on download but figured the wireless networking would be chewed the same way I managed to break my SD install's connectivity. Now that I've had a chance to reboot and check, my internal install is detecting wireless networks as it should so I can continue the updates when the servers stop hanging my downloads later.

This also means that I can grab those same .deb and bring them to the SD to install from local storage. This will fix the networking issue of not detecting any wifi signals to connect too. Now, provided the updated OS does not go into looped rebooting or a hung partial boot, I'll be able to try the update and boot menu reflash rather than fixing issues beyond my comprehension by recloning.

vinc17	2008-10-03 , 13:25
Posts: 227 \| Thanked: 53 times \| Joined on Feb 2008 @ Lyon, France	#435

Originally Posted by Neon Samurai

- there is a config file which includes the list of isntalled packages.

I regularly retrieve the output of "dpkg -l", but this gives too little information about the status of the tablet.

Originally Posted by Neon Samurai

- in terms of logging, I've considered adding syslogd to my install but I want to minimize what writes to the flash memory ratehr than hit the chips write limit any faster than I have too.

Perhaps it could be disabled at the end of the boot.

	Texrat	2008-10-03 , 13:45
	Posts: 11,700 \| Thanked: 10,045 times \| Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA	#436

Originally Posted by vinc17

Unfortunately not everyone remembers everything what they did since the last reflash, including things not done as root (as the SSU behavior also depends on user space, as it was shown).

Hang on a second.

It's unfortunate that some have performed actions on their tablets that interfered with SSU, and they don't recall offhand what those actions were, but doing so in the first place was a risk they chose to take.

I have said this numerous times but I guess it is still not resonating with everyone: Nokia cannot possibly test for every single possible configuration out there. And the community has done some really far out things! (that's not meant in a bad way-- I think it's cool).

The above is not an excuse for "alpha products or poor QA" as one poster mistakenly alleged. It's just reality. And comparing Maemo to long-established linux builds (as some have) is a bit naive.

None of the problems with SSU are wilfull maliciousness on Nokia's part as some seem to believe. They are the result of something irregular. And while statements like Jaffa's about doing a little investigation may seem trite, doing so and reporting back through bugzilla is the only way that the Maemo team can acquire the information necessary to prevent future problems.

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bafio	2008-10-03 , 13:58
Posts: 5 \| Thanked: 1 time \| Joined on Mar 2008	#437

Originally Posted by Texrat

Hang on a second.

It's unfortunate that some have performed actions on their tablets that interfered with SSU, and they don't recall offhand what those actions were, but doing so in the first place was a risk they chose to take.

I have said this numerous times but I guess it is still not resonating with everyone: Nokia cannot possibly test for every single possible configuration out there. And the community has done some really far out things! (that's not meant in a bad way-- I think it's cool).

Fine with me, as long as they alert users that the supplied documentation is an integral part of the operating system. Such a feature is uncommon on mainstream OS so many users may be surprised that deleting such documentation may cause the update to fail. If this is not poor quality insurance on a software release, they would better provide warnings when deleting such files!
Otherwise, in a more constructive way, they could try to provide some fixes and learn from their mistakes.

	Texrat	2008-10-03 , 14:11
	Posts: 11,700 \| Thanked: 10,045 times \| Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA	#438

Originally Posted by bafio

Fine with me, as long as they alert users that the supplied documentation is an integral part of the operating system. Such a feature is uncommon on mainstream OS so many users may be surprised that deleting such documentation may cause the update to fail. If this is not poor quality insurance on a software release, they would better provide warnings when deleting such files!
Otherwise, in a more constructive way, they could try to provide some fixes and learn from their mistakes.

I feel like I must be speaking some alien language.

Isn't the last part of your post what I just said?

The documentation issue has been bugged and I am confident it will be addressed. Reporting it, voting on it and discussing it are all parts of the feedback and correction process. Have you voted on that bug yet?

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dxitt	2008-10-03 , 14:19
Posts: 28 \| Thanked: 1 time \| Joined on Aug 2008	#439

Hi,

I updated my n810 last night and found out that WLAN "selection connection" is NOT working properly. It keeps "searching", but no wifi network shows up! Though it still connects to my home wireless router as it was saved in the profile. The WLAN taskbar icon is grayed out...