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attila77 is offline attila77
2010-05-26 , 08:01
Posts: 3,319 | Thanked: 5,610 times | Joined on Aug 2008 @ Finland
#81
Originally Posted by smoku View Post
You take a basic MeeGo distribution and put Hildon UI (or Qt UI) some Nokia specific apps and services on top and you have system both based on MeeGo and MeeGo compatible - because it has everything MeeGo compatible system requires inside. And it is obviously instance of MeeGo, because there is whole MeeGo core stack inside.

Hope, now you get the idea of what MeeGo is.

In other words it's a way of achieving multi OS application compatibility. If you write an application for the lowest common denominator called MeeGo, your app will run on Nokia Maemo-descendant platforms and on Intel Moblin-descendant platforms and on the in-car computer platform running MeeGo distribution under the hood, and..
You are talking about application level compatibility (the ’MeeGo API’ as provided by Harmattan). If we are to transplant a whole UX and any custom services, that is not enough, we need to ensure a certain level of system level compatibility, which may or may not be an easy task (no way to tell before the harmattan SDK). It has been communicated that there ARE system and middleware level differences between MeeGo and Harmattan (deb vs rpm anyone?).
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qgil is offline qgil
2010-05-26 , 08:18
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#82
Carsten please correct me if I'm wrong, but scope of this discussion is to make the MeeGo-Harmattan stack work in the N900.

Running the MeeGo stack in the N900 is a goal covered already by the MeeGo project through the team coordinated by Harri.
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Stskeeps is offline Stskeeps
2010-05-26 , 08:30
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#83
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
Carsten please correct me if I'm wrong, but scope of this discussion is to make the MeeGo-Harmattan stack work in the N900.

Running the MeeGo stack in the N900 is a goal covered already by the MeeGo project through the team coordinated by Harri.
No, you're perfectly right. The scope of this discussion is making MeeGo-Harmattan stack work in the N900, as I've started discussing in an earlier post.

I think the confusion lies in that people don't know exactly what Harmattan is and the MeeGo branding of it adding to the confusion. And then the thread derailed completely And that people don't know exactly what MeeGo is (Harmattan adding to the confusion..)

To make it perfectly clear. The Harmattan stack is an evolved Fremantle (as I understand it), that is, a Debian package based system, which is supposed to be MeeGo compliant, ie, it implements the same APIs applications would expect to find on a 'proper' MeeGo (rpm based) system.

It would be the first system implementing the MeeGo APIs and a MeeGo UX plus applications etc from Nokia's side. And what people would want to upgrade to. Either by buying a new device with Harmattan, or by running the community backport of Harmattan.

A proper 'MeeGo' (RPM based system) with Nokia differentiations, is yet to be seen - hence we can't want to backport it yet Give MeeGo (RPM based) time to mature. When it is, I bet it runs on N900 without big problems.
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johnel is offline johnel
2010-05-26 , 08:43
Posts: 999 | Thanked: 1,117 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ earth?
#84
Before anyone can talk about "services" and "commercial" apps (e.g. skype) we need a fully-working foundation.

Before we even think about the MeeGo UI on the n900 we need a fully-working foundation.

As it stands now, MeeGo on the n900 seems to be heading in the right direction. The imminent next MeeGo release will be almost fully-functioning - with closed source components.

What would make sense it to do another release, include the closed source components and ensure from a technical point-of-view all components are in place and fully-working.

Install some kind of window manager/desktop - it does not have to be a final UI but something people can work with and then anyone can start coding apps (e.g. phone app, battery monitor) and start "fleshing-out" the UI.

Ideally there should not be any closed source components in the platform but it allows us to have a fully working device. Over time we can replace these with open source versions and reach the goal of a truly open sourced mobile device.

Btw: I can't remember where I read this but after the next release of MeeGo for the n900 the release cycle is going to be every 6 months?

Would it not be better to have a rolling-release as functionality is completed?

For me the first major milestone is a fully-functioning layer without the UI.

Then someone could install a window manager (e.g. xfce) and start writing apps (e.g. make phone calls, messaging).

Does this make sense?

What do others think?

Am I just rambling a lot of nonsense?

Where's my coffee?
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zaheerm is offline zaheerm
2010-05-26 , 08:50
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#85
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
Sorry, I thought my first post was clear.

In short, this thread is about creating a Hacker/Community edition for the N900 of the OS and apps that Nokia will ship in the first device based on MeeGo.
@qgil excellent, so are Nokia allowing the community to ship the same UX and apps that are on the Harmattan device as a community build for the N900?
 
attila77 is offline attila77
2010-05-26 , 09:04
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#86
Originally Posted by Stskeeps View Post
It would be the first system implementing the MeeGo APIs and a MeeGo UX plus applications etc from Nokia's side. And what people would want to upgrade to. Either by buying a new device with Harmattan, or by running the community backport of Harmattan.

A proper 'MeeGo' (RPM based system) with Nokia differentiations, is yet to be seen - hence we can't want to backport it yet Give MeeGo (RPM based) time to mature. When it is, I bet it runs on N900 without big problems.
Am I right saying that the real question is what APIs/packages BESIDES the MeeGo ones are used by the UX and services in Harmattan ? For example if some bundled or system app/service uses the Ovi API or a particular gstreamer element, then we will have to make that API/lib available on the community port, too, regardless of it’s status in MeeGo for the N900.
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Stskeeps is offline Stskeeps
2010-05-26 , 09:12
Posts: 1,671 | Thanked: 11,478 times | Joined on Jun 2008 @ Warsaw, Poland
#87
Originally Posted by attila77 View Post
Am I right saying that the real question is what APIs/packages BESIDES the MeeGo ones are used by the UX and services in Harmattan ? For example if some bundled or system app/service uses the Ovi API or a particular gstreamer element, then we will have to make that API/lib available on the community port, too, regardless of it’s status in MeeGo for the N900.
Right, besides the hardware support components, leave MeeGo for N900 out of it.

Community port would be whatever the content the device image for a Harmattan device would have, with modifications + additions in the package list to make it work on N900.

Nokia binaries we probably won't have trouble with, 3rd party ones we might. Some 3rd parties we can just put in a token repository on tablets-dev (DSP binaries, GLES libs, etc), some are more difficult..

Perceive it as it being possible to take whatever the images are made of (repositories access, hence packages), a list of packages and build an image for N900 out of that..

Then we'll see what real problems we have. Technical, not many.
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jsa is offline jsa
2010-05-26 , 09:20
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#88
@johnel

This thread is about bringing Harmattan to the N900. To put it bluntly, Harmattan is Maemo 6, not MeeGo. MeeGo compliant, maybe.

Now Harri and his team are working on MeeGo on N900. And I'd really expect MeeGo handheld UX to come with open applications needed for the essentials, making calls, sending messages, etc. What's the point if it doesn't? (check the MeeGo bugzilla for components you can file bugs against in the Handheld UX category)

These two projects may be partially intertwined (HW adaptation, parts of the UX maybe) but are not the same.
 

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smoku is offline smoku
2010-05-26 , 09:44
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#89
Originally Posted by Stskeeps View Post
To make it perfectly clear. The Harmattan stack is an evolved Fremantle (as I understand it), that is, a Debian package based system, which is supposed to be MeeGo compliant, ie, it implements the same APIs applications would expect to find on a 'proper' MeeGo (rpm based) system.
This is new to me.
What is the source of this information?
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johnel is offline johnel
2010-05-26 , 10:24
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#90
Originally Posted by jsa View Post
@johnel

This thread is about bringing Harmattan to the N900. To put it bluntly, Harmattan is Maemo 6, not MeeGo. MeeGo compliant, maybe.

Now Harri and his team are working on MeeGo on N900. And I'd really expect MeeGo handheld UX to come with open applications needed for the essentials, making calls, sending messages, etc. What's the point if it doesn't? (check the MeeGo bugzilla for components you can file bugs against in the Handheld UX category)

These two projects may be partially intertwined (HW adaptation, parts of the UX maybe) but are not the same.
Ahhh! Thanks for clearing up my confusion!

I expected the MeeGo handheld UX would be basic GUI. With essential apps is even better that I was expecting.

This will be in the version of MeeGo for the n900?
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