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#61
Originally Posted by endsormeans View Post
#4- Even Better-er .
Use an alternate os on your n900 ...
ie: one of the chroot variants of Easy Debian or Kali or....whatever is the most current ..
..which will give you a much better browser experience.

#5- Better-est still...
Petition Qole or one of the other Chroot Masters ...to make a chroot of Antix for the n900...
It has the best chance of running fluidly, with excellent compatibility, and a can have a very very small footprint ...
as in:
"it'll run on a toaster" ...
"it'll run on grandpa's wind-up pocket watch"
hell it needs so little resources to run...
Not gonna happen.

Antix (like Kali) is just another Debian derivative. It might have a very performance-saving pre-selection of packages, but there's nothing you can do with Antix that you couldn't do with a custom Debian setup (which ED has always been). So where Debian fails, Antix will fail.
Also, Antix only releases for the x86 architectures.

The reason why I haven't released an Easy Debian Stretch image is because Stretch comes with glibc 2.24 and this glibc hard-requires a recent(ish) kernel. Maemo's 2.6 kernel certainly doesn't do it anymore, even with tweaks. [1]

So unless someone gets a recent glibc-compatible kernel running for Maemo, there will be no updated chroots.

There might be a remote chance of setting up a chroot that is not based on glibc but on musl, because afaik musl still supports 2.6 kernels.
This however won't be practicable with typical desktop distributions like Debian, but would likely be done on top of some embedded distro like openwrt or Alpine.
I'm not familiar with those, so I don't know how hard it would be to equip them with an xserver and a browser.

Other than that I suggest you try to sort out the problems in netsurf on Maemo [2] if you want a recent browser.

Edit:
Another way out of this dilemma would be if someone worked out what difference between glibc 2.23 and 2.24 [3] is responsible for the latter no longer working on ancient kernels and patched that back into 2.24 while keeping the added functionality of 2.24 over 2.23.
That someone is certainly not me.


[1] https://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?...postcount=3257
[2] https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=96579
[3] https://fossies.org/diffs/glibc/2.23_vs_2.24/

Last edited by sulu; 2017-08-07 at 13:48.
 

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endsormeans's Avatar
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#62
Ah...
That explains volumes....
Thank you sulu.
I figured since antix is based on deb and it being so smartly built...
It would be a shoe in.....

It explains a great deal....

Hmmm.

I'm not the brightest lightbulb in the pack when it comes to the gut workings of the n900...
I am more savvy concerning the n8x0...
And I don't know if the n900 can manage some of the tricks the n8x0's can do...
But as you mention ...deb is stalled for us unless the specifics of glibc are dealt with...

And as you mention ...alternates possible that aren't quite debian based...ie : Alpine ...

I am not sure how possible or viable it is for the n900...
But for the n8x0...
There are a plethora (don't get a chance to use that word often...humor me.) of alternate os's that aren't based on deb ...some eclectic ..some not...that run fine on the n8x0's....
That maybe something to look at as well....
__________________
Lurker since 2007, Member since 2013, Certifiable since 1972
Owner of : 1-n770 (in retirement),
3-n800's,
3-n810's,
5-n900's
-3 flawless
-1 loose usb (i don't muck with it & stress it , considering selling it, another can fix the loose usb)
-1 no telephony (perfect for permanent set-up as mini-pc with one of my monitors)
half a neo900 pre- "bought" in 2013....due for production any moment now.


PIMP MY N8X0
Everything you need tightly explained in layman's terms ..in an easy to understand format.. and a video walkthrough to boot.
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94294
THE LOST GRONMAYER CATALOGS
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ight=gronmayer
N8X0 VIDEO ENCODING THE EASY WAY
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ght=mediacoder
242gb ON N800
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90634

THE PAIN-FREE MAEMO DEVELOPMENT LIVE DISTRO-ISO FOR THE NOOB TO THE PRO
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=95567

AFFORDABLE MASS PRODUCTION FOR MAEMO PARTS
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93325
 

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#63
Originally Posted by mr_pingu View Post
It just works
Originally Posted by Mother****ing Website View Post
Seriously, what the **** else do you want?
A website that doesn't use JavaScript to automatically call google-analyitics.com which helps Google to track visitors.

Very ironic. Thankfully I have a browser plugin which protected me.
__________________
DebiaN900 - Native Debian on the N900. Deprecated in favour of Maemo Leste.

Mobile devices with mainline Linux support - Help needed with documentation.

"Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly." - Henry Spencer
 

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#64
Originally Posted by wicket View Post
A website that doesn't use JavaScript to automatically call google-analyitics.com which helps Google to track visitors.

Very ironic. Thankfully I have a browser plugin which protected me.
Well spotted! I didn't even notice but I have my plug-ins too, luckily

If you look up the source, the author even left some comment before the <script> block
__________________
N900 loaded with:
CSSU-T (Thumb)
720p recording,
Pierogi, Lanterne, Cooktimer, Frogatto
N9 16GB loaded with:
Kernel-Plus
--
[TCPdump & libpcap | ngrep]
--
donate
 

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#65
Originally Posted by wicket View Post
A website that doesn't use JavaScript to automatically call google-analyitics.com which helps Google to track visitors.

Very ironic. Thankfully I have a browser plugin which protected me.
There used to be a clone of the website with the analytics removed, but it looks like it's down. I'm sure it was still working not too long ago.

Edit: to be clear, it isn't just the forum censor breaking the link.

Last edited by nthn; 2017-08-07 at 19:38.
 

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#66
Originally Posted by wicket View Post
A website that doesn't use JavaScript to automatically call google-analyitics.com which helps Google to track visitors.

Very ironic. Thankfully I have a browser plugin which protected me.
Talking about irony, take care of what your plugins (like "web of trust"...) may be leaking too :
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/a...ally-anonymous
 

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#67
Originally Posted by endsormeans View Post
I am not sure how possible or viable it is for the n900...
But for the n8x0...
There are a plethora (don't get a chance to use that word often...humor me.) of alternate os's that aren't based on deb ...some eclectic ..some not...that run fine on the n8x0's....
That maybe something to look at as well....
The N900 should be able to run anything the N8x0 can run.

In terms of chroots there are three differences between the two devices that might be relevant:

1. The N8x0 have even older kernels. Afaik there is a range of 2.6.21 to 2.6.23 (correct me if I'm wrong), while the N900 has 2.6.28. While in theory this would be an advantage for the N900, it doesn't matter from a practical POV. All of them are outdated beyond hope. 2.6.32 would be a slightly different story, because glibc still retains support for that due to some legacy RHEL version. But even 2.6.32 would merely delay the inevitable.
The lesson I have learned from the N900 (and probably some others too) is, that I will never again buy a device where I can't install a mainline kernel without losing core functionality.

2. The N900 (with KP) supports armhf. This doesn't actually boost performance, but it increases the range of possible candidate systems in chroots, because any armhf device can stiil run armel but not vice versa.

3. The N900's CPU is considerably faster. From today's POV it doesn't really matter, since it's the difference between "very slow" and "incredibly slow", but for some applications it might still make the difference between being usable and being not.
 

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#68
The n900 running anything the n8x0 can?

I find that one REALLY hard to believe sulu.

Otherwise ...
Virtually all the work by penguinbait and qole ...back in the day on the n8x0 would have most certainly made its way to the n900.
And that is just the work of those two.

I suggest looking up exactly what the n8x0 managed to run ..
It is pretty impressive...and I never saw a minuscule fraction of any of it available for the n900.
And I seriously doubt it was due to lack of interest.

And that is just os-wise...

The work JUST those two did as well on alternate DE's and WM's for the n8x0 also is pretty impressive...
yet again ..I don't see the bulk of what they accomplished for the n8x0 ..available for the n900..

As far as applications go....
even something as mundane ...
(and as far as I feel ...SO needed...)..
I don't see an auto-updating auto-scrolling rss feed widget for the n900...
Or did I miss that?

Hell I don't see that for android or linux...
maybe I am not looking in the right places ...but I have yet to find anything on any other device than the n8x0's that offer that gem.

Or actual xmms .... which can handle 1000's and 1000's of songs in a playlist at a time...
that has a good list of plugins...
that has virtualization eye candy....
xmms can run on the n8x0...
why isn't it available for the n900?

sure we now have oscp for the n900 and n8x0...
which is much more well rounded than xmms...
But even still...why isn't there xmms for the n900 if it can run the same stuff the n8x0 can?

you would think from day 1 that THAT program would have been ported over ...or at least come stock...
BETTER..since the belief is that the n900 is such the up-tick in design and innovation over the n8x0.....the n900 should have come with or been ported xmms2 .....actually.


No I think ...when all is said and done...
If what the n8x0 ...( past tense as well...could , did...and still does) accomplish .....
it is a given then ....
with such certainty that the n900 is such a huge improvement and leap over the n8x0...
that if it were possible ...
it would have been almost immediately done ...and available for the n900 ....
So why not?

Is it that the same people who accomplished volumes for the n8x0 ...
and who also had the n900...
weren't interested in making the same things that the n8x0 available for the n900?
I find that hard to believe...

In short...
Precious little of what the n8x0 could accomplish made it's way to the n900.
Dig back ...and look enough and start writing down a list of the os's, de's, and wm's that folks got running on both the n900 and the n8x0 ...
and to my understanding ...on those 3 areas alone...
...
the n900 being slightly more updated ..with a little more ram ..
and the n900 being a physical "phone" as well ...
(and even then..sip and internet telephony and skype still work on the n8x0 ...so ...)
all of which are outdated.

is all the n900 has going for it compared to the n8x0 ...
in 2017.
__________________
Lurker since 2007, Member since 2013, Certifiable since 1972
Owner of : 1-n770 (in retirement),
3-n800's,
3-n810's,
5-n900's
-3 flawless
-1 loose usb (i don't muck with it & stress it , considering selling it, another can fix the loose usb)
-1 no telephony (perfect for permanent set-up as mini-pc with one of my monitors)
half a neo900 pre- "bought" in 2013....due for production any moment now.


PIMP MY N8X0
Everything you need tightly explained in layman's terms ..in an easy to understand format.. and a video walkthrough to boot.
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94294
THE LOST GRONMAYER CATALOGS
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ight=gronmayer
N8X0 VIDEO ENCODING THE EASY WAY
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ght=mediacoder
242gb ON N800
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90634

THE PAIN-FREE MAEMO DEVELOPMENT LIVE DISTRO-ISO FOR THE NOOB TO THE PRO
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=95567

AFFORDABLE MASS PRODUCTION FOR MAEMO PARTS
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93325

Last edited by endsormeans; 2017-08-09 at 20:12.
 

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#69
Originally Posted by endsormeans View Post
The n900 running anything the n8x0 can?

I find that one REALLY hard to believe sulu.
Well comparing the hardware, the N900 /can/ run anything the n8x0 can.
__________________
2016 - N900 todo list
  • Update Smartcam M5 (rewrite, client+server)
  • Simple Skype client (chat)
  • Translink Brisbane script (time to bus/train)
  • Commbank client (check balance)
  • Uber (basic client, request ride, etc)
 

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#70
Originally Posted by endsormeans View Post
The n900 running anything the n8x0 can?

I find that one REALLY hard to believe sulu.
I was merely talking about the capabilities of the HW and the base OS as supplied by Nokia. Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough.
In that regard (HW+OS) the N900 is superior to the N8x0 in every aspect, except maybe screen size (where it's debatable whether bigger or smaller is better for a mobile device).

Originally Posted by endsormeans View Post
As far as applications go....
[..]
why isn't it available for the n900?
Maybe because nobody capable enough was interested enough in actually doing it.
The N900 may have been a step up from the N8x0, but basically it was just a reiteration of the same idea. So everybody who just made something for the N8x0 to see if it could be done had little incentive to repeat that for the N900.

I was late to the party, so I didn't have that experience with the N8x0. But when I started toying around with ED (which was some weird Lenny/Squeeze chimera back then), I just found it hard to believe that it should be impossible to get it all on a sane package base.
So I started to dig deeper out of pure curiosity and learned about all (well most) of the "magic" that was going on there. Becoming a de facto dev was absolutely not my initial intention and I might have never gotten to a point of knowing how to assemble working images, had ED been in perfect shape when I started using it.
 

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