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2013-11-14
, 18:16
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Posts: 986 |
Thanked: 1,526 times |
Joined on Jul 2010
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#152
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1) im sure you wont, but im just gonna say it anyway. please please please dont limit download attempts of paid apps like the ovi store does.
2) what on earth is 'copy protection' for?
why would a developer want to prohibit installation of their app because the user wget-ed it? how does your copy protection work?
and more importantly, how do i circumvent it as a user, and how do i ensure none of my apps ever use it a developer?
3) may i strongly suggest that you provide a mandatory license field when uploading paid apps?
many users will filter out paid apps from their minds because they want to support open development, but it would be GREAT if developers who support open source AND food and shelter could be rewarded with greater visibility.
for example, i missed out on the n9's speakerswitcher for like a year because it was a paid app and i assumed it was proprietary.
4) i would REALLY like a catalog sortable by license type {copyleft, permissive, proprietary, unspecified}. i personally find it annoying to have to download and unpack every deb to find the COPYING file.
2) what on earth is 'copy protection' for?
why would a developer want to prohibit installation of their app because the user wget-ed it? how does your copy protection work?
and more importantly, how do i circumvent it as a user, and how do i ensure none of my apps ever use it a developer?
3) may i strongly suggest that you provide a mandatory license field when uploading paid apps?
many users will filter out paid apps from their minds because they want to support open development, but it would be GREAT if developers who support open source AND food and shelter could be rewarded with greater visibility.
for example, i missed out on the n9's speakerswitcher for like a year because it was a paid app and i assumed it was proprietary.
4) i would REALLY like a catalog sortable by license type {copyleft, permissive, proprietary, unspecified}. i personally find it annoying to have to download and unpack every deb to find the COPYING file.
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2013-11-14
, 18:29
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Posts: 747 |
Thanked: 2,370 times |
Joined on May 2012
@ Moscow, Russia
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#153
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Originally Posted by wolke
There will be no limit for downloads. Download as much as you want. You even can upload deb to warez site. It would be installable only on eligible device.
1) im sure you wont, but im just gonna say it anyway. please please please dont limit download attempts of paid apps like the ovi store does.
Originally Posted by wolke
If you phone is eligible, you can install app even if was downloaded by your friend, who has access to this app( since he also bought it).
2) what on earth is 'copy protection' for?
why would a developer want to prohibit installation of their app because the user wget-ed it? how does your copy protection work?
and more importantly, how do i circumvent it as a user, and how do i ensure none of my apps ever use it a developer?
As user you will not feel any diff. Ordinary deb/rpm. Download, tap to install, read some notes during installation. Start application
Protection will be applied only to 'closed beta' apps and paid apps.
Originally Posted by wolke
Reasonable, I will give it a try. Some kind of sorting/promoting features. May be in conjunction with donation system (even for free apps)
3) may i strongly suggest that you provide a mandatory license field when uploading paid apps?
many users will filter out paid apps from their minds because they want to support open development, but it would be GREAT if developers who support open source AND food and shelter could be rewarded with greater visibility.
for example, i missed out on the n9's speakerswitcher for like a year because it was a paid app and i assumed it was proprietary.
Originally Posted by wolke
To be honest, I forgot to add this feature
4) i would REALLY like a catalog sortable by license type {copyleft, permissive, proprietary, unspecified}. i personally find it annoying to have to download and unpack every deb to find the COPYING file.
I have been already asked for that. Will be added of course to all applications.
__________________
twitter: @basil_s home: http://thecust.net
OpenRepos.net - community driven repository project. Warehouse - native client for OpenRepos.net
Buy me a beer
twitter: @basil_s home: http://thecust.net
OpenRepos.net - community driven repository project. Warehouse - native client for OpenRepos.net
Buy me a beer
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2013-11-14
, 18:33
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Posts: 986 |
Thanked: 1,526 times |
Joined on Jul 2010
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#154
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as an ovi store user, the only way i currently download paid apps is with my browser on my laptop. i then store the deb so i dont need to redownload it when i reflash.
will this be possible without having to install some sort of big brother type validator with openrepos? i dont want to lose the ability to install the app if openrepos goes down.
my other concern is as a developer; i would HATE for any user to ever not be able to do what they want with an app of mine, especially if they paid money for it. if there WILL be a big-brother-validator-thing, can it be optional, even for paid apps?
will this be possible without having to install some sort of big brother type validator with openrepos? i dont want to lose the ability to install the app if openrepos goes down.
my other concern is as a developer; i would HATE for any user to ever not be able to do what they want with an app of mine, especially if they paid money for it. if there WILL be a big-brother-validator-thing, can it be optional, even for paid apps?
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2013-11-14
, 18:57
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Posts: 747 |
Thanked: 2,370 times |
Joined on May 2012
@ Moscow, Russia
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#155
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Originally Posted by wolke
You dont have to. Once reflashed install warehouse, and then all earlier downloaded debs with basic protection will be installable. API protection type depends on you. As developer you will be able to force invalidate all already downloaded debs so they become uninstallable(or unrunnable), since you [may] call api-validity-check function on application startup.
as an ovi store user, the only way i currently download paid apps is with my browser on my laptop. i then store the deb so i dont need to redownload it when i reflash.
Originally Posted by wolke
I will write separate post on openrepos about application protection levels with more details.
will this be possible without having to install some sort of big brother type validator with openrepos? i dont want to lose the ability to install the app if openrepos goes down.
Short description:
- 1 level - package level.
Developer: no application or package modification required. upload as is.
User: just dont reflash phone since you buy application. pre-downloaded debs are reusable. If you reflash, you have to install warehouse and run it first and login with your openrepos account. - 2 level - package level
Developer: no application or package modification required. upload as is. Your application dashboard will have option for invalidation previously downloaded package.
User: you need active online connection for deb installation. pre-downloaded deb are okay if not invalidated by publisher. If package is invalidated, redownload is required. - 3 level - application level
Developer: Application shoud you special api for checking validity. Online status depends on how you implement and use api (force active or passive). I.e. show advert or disable some functions if application is not validated.
Application dashboard will have switch invalidating current installations(not deb files).
User: Basically, just dont reboot your phone once application has been validated. On reboot/warehouse reinstallation online connection required.
Originally Posted by wolke
Does this mean that user can redistribute you application package to any forum/site?
my other concern is as a developer; i would HATE for any user to ever not be able to do what they want with an app of mine, especially if they paid money for it.
Originally Posted by wolke
Off, Level 1, Level 2 can be switched instantly on any paid/beta application, and will be applied for future downloads.
if there WILL be a big-brother-validator-thing, can it be optional, even for paid apps?
Level 3 depends on your api usage.
__________________
twitter: @basil_s home: http://thecust.net
OpenRepos.net - community driven repository project. Warehouse - native client for OpenRepos.net
Buy me a beer
twitter: @basil_s home: http://thecust.net
OpenRepos.net - community driven repository project. Warehouse - native client for OpenRepos.net
Buy me a beer
Last edited by Custodian; 2013-11-14 at 20:31.
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2013-11-14
, 19:06
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Posts: 986 |
Thanked: 1,526 times |
Joined on Jul 2010
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#156
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Originally Posted by Custodian
yes, obviously.
Does this mean that user can redistribute you application package to any forum/site?
Originally Posted by Custodian
oh thats AWFUL. one needs to install either a closed source validator program, or a big-brother-reporting-on-my-activity program that will be in contact with openrepos?
Basically, just dont reboot your phone once application has been validated. On reboot/warehouse reinstallation online connection required.
openrepos just turned from SUPER AWESOME BEST THING EVER to maybe even not worth supporting in one bad decision.
i dont understand why you would AIM to be demonstrably worse than ovi store.
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2013-11-14
, 19:13
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Posts: 986 |
Thanked: 1,526 times |
Joined on Jul 2010
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#157
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may i just point out why other folks dont do this- if you distribute a package that is installable in some medium, then anyone can take those installed files, and make a binary package of them that does NOT forcibly restrict use of the 'warehouse' validator, and then post THAT it to the forums.
basically, youre only making life hard for those who respect copyright law and want to be able to perform those actions permitted in the respective licensing scheme.
also, i suspect that the wording in gplv3 makes it so that gplv3 programs cannot be paid openrepos apps, if you do it this way.
basically, youre only making life hard for those who respect copyright law and want to be able to perform those actions permitted in the respective licensing scheme.
also, i suspect that the wording in gplv3 makes it so that gplv3 programs cannot be paid openrepos apps, if you do it this way.
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2013-11-14
, 19:17
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Posts: 986 |
Thanked: 1,526 times |
Joined on Jul 2010
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#158
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wait, i may have misunderstood; is it possible to have a completely non-restricted paid app {you cant download it unless you pay, but then you get the fully reinstallable deb}?
then obviously gplv3 apps are fine.
if the big-brother-validator is strictly optional, i STILL think youre making a mistake in having it, but i can at least use openrepos to distribute my apps, and maybe make you and me a little bit of money off them.
then obviously gplv3 apps are fine.
if the big-brother-validator is strictly optional, i STILL think youre making a mistake in having it, but i can at least use openrepos to distribute my apps, and maybe make you and me a little bit of money off them.
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2013-11-14
, 19:21
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Posts: 986 |
Thanked: 1,526 times |
Joined on Jul 2010
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#159
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sry, one more post just to make sure:
i plan on never installing and never asking anyone else to install warehouse, or any other app that forces the user to be online to install, validate, or register any software with any entity.
will i be able to use openrepos in this way? and, separately, will i be able to sell applications that use openrepos in this way?
i plan on never installing and never asking anyone else to install warehouse, or any other app that forces the user to be online to install, validate, or register any software with any entity.
will i be able to use openrepos in this way? and, separately, will i be able to sell applications that use openrepos in this way?
__________________
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~ teleshoes ~
| The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to wolke For This Useful Post: | ||
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2013-11-14
, 19:32
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Posts: 747 |
Thanked: 2,370 times |
Joined on May 2012
@ Moscow, Russia
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#160
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Originally Posted by wolke
If you can collect and know all files which belongs to package, as well as package scripts content(preinst,postinst...) ofcourse you can do that. Package level is for script kiddies-protection. Also, protected package does not provide info about files or scripts.
anyone can take those installed files, and make a binary package of them that does NOT forcibly restrict use of the 'warehouse' validator, and then post THAT it to the forums.
basically, youre only making life hard for those who respect copyright law and want to be able to perform those actions permitted in the respective licensing scheme.
Originally Posted by wolke
Your application content is not modified.
also, i suspect that the wording in gplv3 makes it so that gplv3 programs cannot be paid openrepos apps, if you do it this way.
After installation occurs all your files are same as you packaged them before uplading to openrepos.
Originally Posted by wolke
It is possible. If you havent selected any protection level and does not use openrepos api-checks at your application.
wait, i may have misunderstood; is it possible to have a completely non-restricted paid app {you cant download it unless you pay, but then you get the fully reinstallable deb}?
Originally Posted by wolke
You can download any application you paid for via openrepos site. If no protection selected, it will be exactly same deb as developer uploaded.
will i be able to use openrepos in this way? and, separately, will i be able to sell applications that use openrepos in this way?
__________________
twitter: @basil_s home: http://thecust.net
OpenRepos.net - community driven repository project. Warehouse - native client for OpenRepos.net
Buy me a beer
twitter: @basil_s home: http://thecust.net
OpenRepos.net - community driven repository project. Warehouse - native client for OpenRepos.net
Buy me a beer
Brief details what i'm working on.
What have been already added to OpenRepos:
SailfishOS repos are live! If you cannot get to harbour due to storms, you can get some rest here
You can now attach change logs to platform packges. Or select 'change autoupdate' option for auto extraction changelogs from deb, rpm, etc.
If you have multiple versions attached to the same package, higher version changelog will be used. Each platform package have own changelog.
Changelogs as well as version info will be visible at Warehouse at future releases before you enable repository(install package).
Multiscale ranking system added. Currently only one scale called 'rating' is enabled. More scales will be added for voting soon(like usability, performance ...)
Any expectations here?
Platform filters to OpenRepos. Select your platform to see available apps. Filters not yet working site-wide, but will do so in a short period of time.
Bla-bla-bla some internal core changes bla-bla-bla
What is done now and will be deployed soon:
By default only user section packages (i.e. no system or core updates) will be visible at Applications and Games.
Libs/perl-extra/python-extra and non-user packages are excluded from 'avarage user' view and moved into System/Libraries-like categories.
Same for Warehouse. Special switch at settings page(disabled by default) will let you install nonuser packages, and perform more 'low-level' package activity.
Packages are going to be resorted based on package category.
I'm thinking about proper categories which should be used at OpenRepos.
I found N9-Apps style of application tile quite suitable for openrepos, so tiles are changed and will show more info about the application: Name, Icon, Publisher, Rating, Category, Quick Install link.
Tile will be main form of application display within 'last changed', 'top downloads', category, etc.
Last updated apps seems boring
Top week, Top month, New, etc.
Report system for content abuse, harmful package or merge with other package requests.
Dont know if it is really needed, but why not?
The idea of openrepos
Quick bar for donations to publisher. If publisher specifies any options at his profile.
Beta packages for application, which are available to close range of users you selected.
This is first step for paid apps support, and widetest for openrepos copy-protection system.
Openrepos feature the copy protection system for deb and rpm packages. You dont have to modify your application to get "basic level" protection. Even if package is intercepted(manually downloaded), it cannot be installed on unallowed system. Extra api also will be avilable for devs to get 'activation' information for thier apps.
What is planned for next release(s):
Working hard, but not yet completed. Targeting to finish that stuff before 01.01.2014.
Currently i'm targeting direct user2publisher paiments without any 'every month invoice' bullshiieet. User buys, you get money with microtransaction. Paypal (and maybe Scrill, ex Moneybookers) on the launch date. All paid apps
willcan be copy-protected.More details will be available asap.
Warehouse client application will be available for sailfish.
Information about changes and updates will be published later at warehouse topic.
twitter: @basil_s home: http://thecust.net
OpenRepos.net - community driven repository project. Warehouse - native client for OpenRepos.net
Buy me a beer
Last edited by Custodian; 2013-11-14 at 19:03.