Active Topics
-
Firefox with Leste (5)
to Maemo 7 / Leste by teroyk - 1 day, 4 hrs ago -
Handbook (2)
to Maemo 7 / Leste by teroyk - 2 days, 3 hrs ago - more...
| The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to pycage For This Useful Post: | ||
|
2009-07-08
, 07:18
|
|
Posts: 2,802 |
Thanked: 4,491 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
|
#102
|
Originally Posted by Sho
I stand corrected. That (porting a non-trivial chunk of kdelibs to S60) is really impressive then :-)
If you take a look at the info box for the video on YouTube, you will find a link to the sources in KDE's SVN repository there, including the S60 port of kdelibs. It's not a complete kdelibs, but I wouldn't really characterize it - or Plasma's dependencies on kdelibs - as minimal.
| The Following User Says Thank You to lma For This Useful Post: | ||
|
|
2009-07-08
, 07:25
|
|
Posts: 2,802 |
Thanked: 4,491 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
|
#103
|
Originally Posted by Architengi
While I don't necessarily disagree re: S60, a vastly improved version of the S90 UI (aka Hildon) lives on in Maemo. Ok, as we just found out its days are numbered but it's there right now if you want it.
the s80 and s90, superior to s60 were abandoned, s60 is kind of crappy for upgrade
| The Following User Says Thank You to lma For This Useful Post: | ||
|
|
2009-07-08
, 07:50
|
|
Posts: 2,802 |
Thanked: 4,491 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
|
#104
|
Originally Posted by pycage
That's ok, ABI breaks happen sometimes and this one had several benefits & was pretty much a necessary move since upstream compilers, distributions etc were moving to EABI. Most other ARM platforms had to go through the same transition.
OS 2005 -> OS 2006: switched from ARM to ARMEL, all applications had to be recompiled
OS 2008 -> Diablo: smooth transition, wow!
Fremantle -> Harmattan: toolkit switch from Gtk to Qt, switching from C to C++ as the default language. Many apps will have to be rewritten! Possibly switching CPU architecture from ARM to x86. Total breakage, total disaster.
| The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to lma For This Useful Post: | ||
 |
|
2009-07-08
, 09:46
|
|
Posts: 1,137 |
Thanked: 402 times |
Joined on Sep 2007
@ Catalunya
|
#105
|
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
Maybe, but when you learn your way around the UI, the novelty factor wears off, the effects become annoying and you turn them off (provided somebody didn't decide she knows better and doesn't let you turn them off).
Well done effects can provide you with important information and UI clues more effectively than simple static UIs ever can.
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
Well, it doesn't matter if it looks slick but it doesn't do its job well. Claws looks like sh*t[*] on the tablet, but it actually works.
As with anything, tools are nothing more than that, some people use them well and some people don't, and, unfortunately, doing this well is a skill many companies seem to lack, but from the Fremantle screencasts I've seen so far it looks pretty promising (Modest just looks slick).
[*]for me it's actually ui nirvana, but for those looking for effects, animations, big icons and whatever it probably looks like sh*t.
|
|
2009-07-08
, 12:01
|
|
Posts: 35 |
Thanked: 246 times |
Joined on Feb 2009
|
#106
|
Originally Posted by lma
That depends a lot of what your application is doing. In easiest
This is not really my area of expertise, but AFAIK there's no easy way to bolt a Qt UI onto a pre-existing plain-C application. If there is I'll be more than happy to be corrected :-)
case, you can refactor UI with Qt designer in couple of days
and leave the actual application logic un touched.
In worst case if your application is about 100% UI then thing is
different. There is no magic mixing C and C++ together.
 |
|
2009-07-08
, 12:27
|
|
Posts: 3,105 |
Thanked: 11,088 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Mountain View (CA, USA)
|
#107
|
We have started announcing changes on Harmattan even before releasing Fremantle final precisely to have enough time to discuss and make the right steps. Nobody is asking current Maemo application developers to switch to Qt, they better concentrate on Fremantle in the way that pleases them better.
Also nobody is asking these app developers to go and maintain the toolkit in Harmattan. The announcement was done in front of an audience of platform developers including plenty of GNOME contributors and the GTK+ and Hildon developers.
Technically there shouldn't be many problems having the Fremantle Hildon/GTK+ libraries coexisting with the Harmattan application framework based on Qt, thanks to keeping the same middleware. Getting these Fremantle Hildon apps 'as is' in Harmattan shouldn't be a big deal.
The Harmattan API and UI will bring more things and having GTK+ apps taking all the new thing is surely a more complicated task. But this is one of the things the community and the developers interested can decide: prioritize the alignment with GNOME or with Maemo, or find ways to satisfy both.
Also nobody is asking these app developers to go and maintain the toolkit in Harmattan. The announcement was done in front of an audience of platform developers including plenty of GNOME contributors and the GTK+ and Hildon developers.
Technically there shouldn't be many problems having the Fremantle Hildon/GTK+ libraries coexisting with the Harmattan application framework based on Qt, thanks to keeping the same middleware. Getting these Fremantle Hildon apps 'as is' in Harmattan shouldn't be a big deal.
The Harmattan API and UI will bring more things and having GTK+ apps taking all the new thing is surely a more complicated task. But this is one of the things the community and the developers interested can decide: prioritize the alignment with GNOME or with Maemo, or find ways to satisfy both.
 |
|
2009-07-08
, 12:33
|
|
Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
|
#108
|
Originally Posted by luca
Well done is the operative term here, and you're clearly not getting my point. But continue on with your bias against composited UIs. It's of little matter to me.
Maybe, but when you learn your way around the UI, the novelty factor wears off, the effects become annoying and you turn them off (provided somebody didn't decide she knows better and doesn't let you turn them off).
__________________
Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
|
|
2009-07-08
, 14:16
|
|
Posts: 1,097 |
Thanked: 650 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
|
#109
|
Originally Posted by luca
A UI is as it says an interface to interact with the software.
Maybe, but when you learn your way around the UI, the novelty factor wears off, the effects become annoying and you turn them off (provided somebody didn't decide she knows better and doesn't let you turn them off).
Having special effects doesn't necessarily mean just cheap thrills. If its done with tought and good design, it actually enhances the user experience - not in the "Wow that is cool sliding effect", but in reducing the amount of time it takes for an average user to interact usefully to do a task.
Or it increases the choices in how you can accomplish something.
Please don't equate UI effects to only graphical gee-whiz effects. Its really more than that.
Claws having multiple panes unlike many other apps is itself an UI effect so to speak. Similarly a sliding window to reveal additional info is also a effective UI design. Just because it slides gracefully doesn't mean its of no use.
| The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to nilchak For This Useful Post: | ||
|
|
2009-07-08
, 14:41
|
|
Posts: 1,137 |
Thanked: 402 times |
Joined on Sep 2007
@ Catalunya
|
#110
|
Originally Posted by nilchak
[.....]
Having special effects doesn't necessarily mean just cheap thrills. If its done with tought and good design, it actually enhances the user experience - not in the "Wow that is cool sliding effect", but in reducing the amount of time it takes for an average user to interact usefully to do a task.
Originally Posted by nilchak
Well, that's contradictory: if it slides gracefully it will take more time to show the information than just popping it up instantly.
Similarly a sliding window to reveal additional info is also a effective UI design. Just because it slides gracefully doesn't mean its of no use.
The special effect, while nice, will increase the time, not reduce it.
Edit: and having the information already visible in the first place will further reduce time.
OS 2005 -> OS 2006: switched from ARM to ARMEL, all applications had to be recompiled, no finger-friendly UI
OS 2006 -> OS 2007: (N800) switched from OMAP1 to OMAP2, this was necessary and not too tragic, since OMAP2 could execute OMAP1 code, many apps had to be recompiled because of API breakage though. mix of finger-UI and stylus-UI with poor autodetection
OS 2007 -> OS 2008: again much had to be recompiled once again. no more finger/stylus-autodetection. mix of finger-UI with stylus-UI
OS 2008 -> Diablo: smooth transition, wow!
(so far, API breakage was OK because maemo was not mainstream. the next step enters mainstream market, though)
Diablo -> Elephanta: dropped. time is running out. Nokia faces tough competition. No point in concentrating on the NIT devices any more.
Diablo -> Fremantle: OMAP2 -> OMAP3, API breakage, HIG (human interface guidelines) breakage. finger-UI. Many apps have to be redesigned for the new UI guidelines.
Fremantle -> Harmattan: toolkit switch from Gtk to Qt, switching from C to C++ as the default language. Many apps will have to be rewritten! Possibly switching CPU architecture from ARM to x86. Total breakage, total disaster. Once downloaded or paid apps from the "app store" will no longer work.
Nokia seems to be struggling real hard with iPhone and Android competition. The N900 could be a year too late for catching up. I'm still a fan of the NITs and am looking forward to the N900, but slowly I begin to lose faith in maemo, and the latest news don't help rebuilding faith.