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Posts: 1,358 | Thanked: 7,509 times | Joined on Dec 2008 @ Shanghai / London
#261
Originally Posted by catbus View Post
And btw... what is the price? 400? 600? 1000? (euros)

Do i have to sell my car? Or house?
No please no...

My target is to fit your 400 EU tier, definitely not planning to be above 600.

Price will also be effected by the choice of SW (different licence cost), the components price around MP date etc.

And also our quantity won't be so big, so our component price will be higher than those big guys get...

But I am confident that it won't go beyond 600. I want everyone who loves it can get one. (This is the reason we are not using AMOLED or Flagship SoC, which will make final price easily a few hundred more...)
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Last edited by chenliangchen; 2017-08-03 at 20:43.
 

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#262
Originally Posted by chenliangchen View Post
My target is to fit your 400 tier, definitely not planning to be above 600.
Which currency?
 

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#263
Originally Posted by Feathers McGraw View Post
Which currency?
I'm following Catbus so it's EURO. (Also updated on the post)
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#264
Originally Posted by chenliangchen View Post

My target is to fit your 400 EU tier, definitely not planning to be above 600.
Just take my money!
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#265
Take it twice if it's 400.
 

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#266
Originally Posted by marmistrz View Post
Glass screen have that beautiful property (every phone manufacturing company will agree) that they break really easily!
Alternatively you could just buy a high quality screen protector.
(Random example : Skinomi are good in my experience and can rather easily make pre-cut custom design, e.g.: for chen's phone)


Originally Posted by marmistrz View Post
And a QWERTY slider can't be put in an extremely heavy duty case to prevent the screen from cracking.
Correction: a keyboard slider can't be put in an extremely heavy duty backcover / phonecase.

It can but put without any problem in a holster / camera case.

I've been using holsters (normally designed for compact camera) by Hama and Case Logic successfully all the way back from my Palm Pre up to now with my Jolla phone.

They are durable enough that I can safely use them when I go skiing (My week-end hobby is being a ski instructor at the local university).

Though now I'll have to find one which fits chen's 5.5 inch monster.
(The current biggest from Hama is designed for the samsung camera/phone hybrid and only barely fits my 4.5 inch Jolla)
(I think I've seen cases from moleskin that feature attachement points that could be used on the belt).

Originally Posted by mr_pingu View Post
Just like the N900 has. FN + Ctrl brings up the symbol dialog box
On PalmOS, it was more :
Alt-Z is "é", Alt-X is "è", Alt-C is "ê", Alt-V is "ë", etc.
Single 2-key combo for most symbols

(It's Palm's webOS that also included a dialog box like the N900.
Sym + letter brings a dialog with all the diacritics for that letter)


Though, SFOS being a Linux, it should probably also be possible to implement a standard UNIX "compose" key :

Compose + e + ' = "é"
Compose + c + s = "š"
Compose + t + h = "þ"
etc.

Note you don't press them as a 3 keys combo, but as 3 keys sequence in order.
It's a bit more cumbersome that a 2 keys combo, but at least it's entirely in-keyboard, you do not need to move your fingers to an on screen dialog.

(As your current PC keyboard probably lacks an actual compose key, check on wikipedia or google which combo is used by you Mac OS or Linux disto. In my case it's Right shift+ Right Control)

Originally Posted by caa View Post
It's not just Samsung with a monopoly now: LG Display, BOE Display, Tianma, and AUO, are worth contacting.
If by random chance, one of the OLED manufacturer accepted to provide you a 5.5 inches screen within an acceptable price range, that would be awesome...

(Still I'm paying your future indiegogo even if it's an IPS)

Originally Posted by caa View Post
Much more important than 'dual rear camera' for me would be: Addition of a physical shutter release button on the bottom right side of the phone in portrait mode (top right in landscape) which many phones do not have.
Note: SFOS supports using the volume buttons for shutter if the camera app is open.

Now, regarding a dedicated "shutter" button :
Bonus points if somebody manage to write a patch that :
- if the camera app isn't running
- immediately dumps the content of the sensor in a temp file
- starts the camera app with that file taken as a picture.

(i.e.: being able to instantly capture an interesting moment, right on the instant when the shutter is pressed, even if the camera isn't running).

Large sensor (1/2.3 inch or larger)
I second this :
the larger the sensor, the better the quality of the image. (No matter the number of pixels).

(Then second most important things would be quality of the optical part/len).

Originally Posted by Macros View Post
A quick google search reveals that mostly early landscape sliders like the T-Mobile G1 or the LG KS360 used them. I own a G1 and typing is very uncomfortable. Almost all later phones have the keys stacked on each other like our beloved N900.
I think it all boils down to the quality of the keyboard itself.
All the keyboards I've been testing have been "offset" type:

HTC G1 was "meh" in my short experience (my brother used one)
- mostly sort of ultra-flat island keyboard / bordering on the quality of a membrane keyboard.

HTC Dream Z "meh" also (again my brother's)
- same kind of not very responsive keys. also with age, by now, the response of some key has become horrendous.

On the other hand :

Palm Prē and HP Pre³ (my daily driver for long time until HP closed the servers a couple of after having sold to LG) :
- gum drop keyboard (the same kind also found on Black berries, but without the "fret board")
Very nice to the touch, keys very easy to find by touch only, switches are still very responsive even after years of abuse.


So, for chen's phone, in my opion, the biggest influence won't be "stacked / rectilinear grid" vs "offset like a laptop".
But quality of the switching mechanism.

Even the foldable keyboard I own are more quality-dependent.
I still one a few of the original "stowaway" / "think outside" (including a bluetooh one I still use nowadays with my jolla) :
built quality is wonderful, the key still works marvelously even today, even if parts of the case has suffered damage after all this years (the battery cell is naked, cover is broken).

Meanwhile, I've also bought a more recent "Geyes gk108" USB foldable.
It has the same "4-parts W shape" as the older ones (I think I've read somewhere that they've re-used the same molds).
But the choice of component is definitely worse :
key mecanism is much more sloppy, some keys aren't as responsive as others.
(But I still use it sometimes with my Android tablet, because the 10 inch bluetooth keyboard that came with the magnetic case broke).

Originally Posted by chenliangchen View Post
My target is to fit your 400 EU tier, definitely not planning to be above 600.
400-600 € ?

Consider me sold !
(And very likely my brother too, though probably for the android version).
 

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#267
Please, don't make a phone that implicitly requires a holster or case or screen protector. These things are perfect for people who think they are perfect, horrendous for people who think they are horrendous, and there is no proper way to reconcile these two groups. It's just a matter of preferences and they can hardly be discussed. Just don't make a device assuming everyone would use such protections (and they would still provide increased protection for those who want to use them, but won't be mandatory).

I hate the screen protector on my Jolla C, yet I have no choice. I don't think this is a good design to make it obligatory because the screen itself is not scratch-resistant. I hate rubber case on my N9, but I did not have to use it (acceptable protection trade-off), this was optimal.

As for keyboard diacritics, I agree that an equivalent of Fn+Sym to show special characters on screen as on the N900 would be good, but this does solve the real issue if you need diacritics every two words in your language. It's perfect when you need the special characters every now and then, not more. But it's still good as it shows all characters, so it definitely has advantages. But for everyday typing, there is nothing like the 2-key or 3-key combinations that DrYak just described, or even better, dead key followed by a character, without compose key, like:

' + e = é
` + a = à
" + o = ö
^ + e = ê

This is how us_international works (both Linux and Windows), and it also allows using diacritics on capital letters, which is good. Basically with this, in French you just need one key to map ` and you can type every French special character with dead keys, since ', " and ^ already exist on every keyboard layout anyway, even simplified keyboard-slider layouts. You'd need Alt+key combinations for æ, œ and ç though, unless new dead key combinations like ` + c = ç are created (this should be a non-issue if layouts are flexible as they are on desktop OSes).

Of course us_international does not mean us_french, so I can also type things I don't need in my mother tongue using the same system, like åøóßš, which ultimately reduces the need for extra keys in every different language. Nonetheless, this only works well for people who are used to qwerty, so unless they are already using it or determined to migrate to qwerty regardless of their native layout, it will be hard to make everyone happy. I just hope it will be possible to customize the software side of the available layouts this way so dead keys can be used just like on Linux or Windows.

About grid vs offset keyboard, I admit having no experience with thumb typing on an offset keyboard but the discussion shows that the final decision will be hard and important. Overall I would still naively think that there is a reason why most thumb-keyboards were arranged as grids, but to be honest a lot of these keyboards were crap anyway. I'm just afraid the same with offset would have felt even weirder. Livermorium may have the experience there, let's see what they think is best for thumbs and blind-typing (but keep thumbs and blind-typing with minimal movements in mind Chen please).

Last edited by Kabouik; 2017-08-04 at 01:21.
 

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#268
Originally Posted by TheKit View Post
Personally I'm fine even with wrong labeled keyboard as long as there are enough keys to be remapped .
Yes, enough keys! Like ASDFGHJKLÖÄ <Enter>
Several "extra" keys to be remapped will make life easier without special key combinations.
 

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#269
Originally Posted by Metsämies View Post
Yes, enough keys! Like ASDFGHJKLÖÄ <Enter>
Several "extra" keys to be remapped will make life easier without special key combinations.
Qwerty
Qretyz
Scandic
Chinese
Blank keys
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#270
Originally Posted by caa View Post
on-sensor phase-detect AF;
Wot, I did not even know such things existed!
I thought all phone cameras only have contrast-based AF...
Is it in any way comparable to the separate phasedetect sensors used in real (SLR) cameras?
 

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